turbo upgrade

[bodge]

I have just pursched myself a 95 R33 gtst with the following mods, FMIC, full 3 inch exhaust from the turbo, air filter, and a HKS boost controller. I have talked to alot of people about up grading the turbo, but they seem to tell me different things and now I do not know what to do. Do l highflow the existing turbo? or opt for something big such as a T04 with a custum manifold? and who in Melbourne is the best place to talk about turbo upgrades. My aim is to get the car to run in the 12 second bracket.

[Al]

Hi-flow std turbo.

full engine management

550cc injectors

fuel pump

fuel regulator

and most importantly, a GOOD TUNE!

Optional: ADJ. ex. cam gear

These mods, along with good tyres will definately get you into the 12sec bracket. It will also improve on the drivablity of the car.

Alan C.

[SLY33]

Try GCG turbochargers. They do hi flows or full upgrades. Its my understanding that you wont need to go really big with the turbo and custom manifolds etc, and you'll have 12's potential with a high flowed unit.

from GCG:-

The factory turbocharger is a ball bearing T3 sized unit with a ceramic turbine wheel. In upgrading this unit we replace the ball bearing pack with a new one while replacing the turbine wheel and compressor wheel with hi-flowed models. The upgrade comes in two stages.

XTRGTST-STG1 450hp rated $2250.00

XTRGTST-STG2 500hp rated $2450.00

These conversions are do to the existing unit only.

http://www.gcg.com.au/home.htm

hope this helps. Im considering STG2 myself, anyone got one of these?

btw, you dont HAVE to get 550cc injectors. This expensive mod can be bypassed by just a rising rate regulator (whatsisname: 257rwkw with std injectors. A high flow might net you 235rwkw??). Def. need the management.

[Jay95R33]

I'd bee looking at doing the engine management first. Something like a PFC or Microtech - do a search, there's heaps of info on them on these forums.

You might be happy with what the stock turbo can do for you.

J

[Al]

Sly33

How lean is the a/f mixtures to acheive ~260rwkw. Just remember that an engine makes more power when it is running lean, but how long will it last b4 something blows?

I have a Wolf 3D plug-in on my car and it is making 190rwkw with the a/f mixtures at ~12.2 and the std injectors have a duty cycle of 88% at full load (std fuel system, soon to be upgraded).

-How much rwkw can a rising rate regulator give you and still have a safe a/f mixture? (5-10rwkw?)

-When you say a 'rising rate reg.' is it the same as a 'fuel reg.', or are there two different types of regulators?

[bodge]

Thanks guys for the replys. I have looked at gcg website, but they do not list a distributer in Melbourne. SLY 33 do you know what size wheels are used in the stage 2 upgrade? I have been to ATP and was quoted $1500 for a high flow turbo. The owner, Kyp was telling me his brother has a GTST, they high flowed the turbo, match ported the standard manifold, fitted a 3 inch exhaust, FMIC, fuel pump and reg, kept the standard injectors, a wolf 3D and got 200RWKW and pulled a flat 13 at calder park with street tyres at 107MPH. Looking at the MPH wolud that indicate a high 12 pass with good traction? As for a computer, l am tossing up between a Wolf 3D and Apexi Power FC. The Wolf is alot cheaper, but l have heard it cannot support bigger injectors, is this true?

[T0nyGTSt]

Let's just say that GCG's pricing represents the really high end in what can be done with high flowing a turbo (ie. new ss spindle etc.)

You can find much more competitive prices elsewhere.

T.

[rev210]

Hey bodge,

That ATP turbo isn't all that fab then next to the stocker.

I got a 13.3 @ 106mph with the stock turbo on cheap'o 205's. My S-afc isn't properly tuned either. The MPH would be a tad higher if not for a self imposed 6000rpm redline to avoid a knock above that rev.12's are on the cards soon. BTW thats a full weight car + all my work stuff.

Mt point is if you want 12's then you don't need too much more than the stock size turbo. Then again you will need something to match that big intercooler you have.

[whatsisname]

Originally posted by Al

Sly33

How  lean is the a/f mixtures to acheive ~260rwkw.  Just remember that an engine makes more power when it is running lean, but how long will it last b4 something blows?

I have a Wolf 3D plug-in on my car and it is making 190rwkw with the a/f mixtures at ~12.2 and the std injectors have a duty cycle of 88% at full load (std fuel system, soon to be upgraded).  

-How much rwkw can a rising rate regulator give you and still have a safe a/f mixture? (5-10rwkw?)

-When you say a 'rising rate reg.' is it the same as a 'fuel reg.', or are there two different types of regulators?

Al,

Attached below are the A/FR's on my current tune (WOT of course). As you can see from the dyno sheet a reduction in fuel (throughout the whole rev range) shows we still some fuel left in reserve. The biggest limiting factor is the amount of boost. Over 17psi will regisiter "max duty" on the Microtech.

I still use factory injectors, a bosch '044 pump & rising rate reg (~65-70psi fuel pressure on boost) I could push pressure even higher but I'd rather what till internals are done & bigger injectors go in.

Japanese factory injectors are very good at handling high f/pressure. As much as 90psi has been pushed through stock injectors without failure (long term)! If the remaining fuel system is up to the task then no prob's

Just look at the Nismo 550cc'ers that Gibson Motorsport used in the ATCC R32 GT-R's. Up to 128psi f/pressure! Big Bosch pumps, twin fuel systems & a mechanical pump gave the total fuel system plenty of ability to cope with the demand 128psi would need! Nismo 550's obviously use good solenoids.

A variable rising rate reg (VRRR) is just that. It allows a base variable adjustment plus a greater than 1:1 increase ratio (i.e 1.7:1 - every 1psi boost gives 1.7psi f/pressure increase).

A standard reg will give a 1:1 rate.

Large HP goals - no better way to go about it than larger correctly sized injectors.

Medium HP increase - a good pump & VRRR is not a total "band aid" appoach. If applied correctly.

[SLY33]

thats a better answer than i could give!

I agree about the GCG stuff, it does seem expensive, for the price you can get a good condition HKS2530 or similar...

As for ATP's $1500 high flow turbo, and 200kw at the wheels, I have this with my standard turbo, and id expect low 13 sec qtr's as well. What other mods did the car haev? it must be lacking something, as its only making standard turbo power!!

[rev210]

SLY33,

As always the dyno figures don't mean anything, all dyno sheets are good for is an emergency toilet paper substitute. I don't consider the standard turbo capable of helping the RB25 to anything much over 300HP at the engine. You should go see how your car goes at the 1/4 too it's alot of fun and I think we need as many gtst's as we can get doing some good times.

To be fair it's possible there are other tuning issues with the ATP example car. To do a flat 13 in a gtst is impressive but, the mph indicates a problem somewhere. perhaps the owner shifts gears like nanna?

[whatsisname]

Nothing wrong with granny shiftin'

[Guest vp10120]

Just don't forget to change your computer to HKS F-CON, it helps a lot! But it might cost you a fortune.. Depend you're rich or not..

[Steve]

F-CON, then there is the added expense of getting someone over from japan to tune it.

[bodge]

Sly 33, The mods that l listed in my previous post is all that was done to the ATP car. l guess looking at the RWKW figure, its not that high, considering some people are pulling that sort of power with a standard turbo. Prehaps his running low boost to achieve this figure? l will try and find out, but the guy is very hard to talk to, seems like a bit of a Muzza to me.

[rev210]

bodge,

the flat 13 speaks for itself. Don't worry yourself or others over the rwkw figure. Like I said its as good as toilet paper (only fit to wipe your ass on).

There are quite a few 200rwkw claims made about stock turbo's and I'm yet to see even one come good on it at the strip. I've seen a few dyno readouts that have shown 300rwhp even both cars I have made look slow in races. I'll give you the tip -- my car doesn't have much more than 200kw at the engine lets say 280hp tops. Before people start the winge ' but the standard engine has 184kw blah blah blah... ' remember that these engines we have now are far from fresh having done close to 100,000kms in my case (they don't make anywhere near stock hp at that vintage).

The ATP car is basically to date is faster than any stock turbo'd gtst I know of including mine. Bottom line is " TALK IS CHEAP " so until I knock off the flat 13 it did ATP's turbo is an upgrade (if not a big one).

[Al]

whatsisname

Thanks for your info/reply, it is good to see you keep your a/f ratios within a safe limit.

Alan

[whatsisname]

No prob's Al.

[whatsisname]

Originally posted by rev210

all dyno sheets are good for is an emergency toilet paper substitute

Can't say as I agree with this statement Dave.

What about A/FR's, boost response curve, power & torque curves under WOT, comparing before/after power & torque gains & so on... Sure, these things "can" be done in other ways (on road, datalogger) but the dyno is a far safer & repeatable environment, that doesn't cost that much to use & doesn't require a large outlay for the average Joe.

I do agree that a dyno sheet on its own, used to "prove" xyz car has xxxrwkw, isn't worth much, unless you like to compete in dyno shootouts. Nothing wrong with a friendly dyno shootout Can't be all that bad if the mainstream Summernats HP Hero's get a kick outta' it

Oh yeah! The biggest reason I disagree with you mate? A4 paper is far too rough on the arse cheeks. So I’m told

Matt

[aybee]

:drooling: 2835R :headbang: