Safc Ii Question

[R33silverS2]

Hey I have an safcII being delivered to me as my car runs real rich with noticable flat spots in the rev range. My question is though does the SAFCII help to stop R&R? As in could i run ( hypothetically) 12+psi and not get bogged down by the rich and retard mode? Or would a require a fuel cut defender? I understand it intercepts the signal running to the ecu telling it that is is recieving less air than the car really is but by doing this does it also prevent the timing from being retarted at higher boost?

[Ryanrb25]

it will slightly improve it when you remove a bit of fuel from that rev range (on a dyno) but it's only a bandaid, not a solution.

PFC is required to change the ignition timing to completely get rid of it.

someone please clarify...

Edited January 23, 2007 by Ryanrb25

[R33silverS2]

thanks ryanrb25 any other idea's from people with safc? has it stopped the retarding of timing??

[Nabil]

It won't prevent R&R as it still runs off the factory ecu.

I used to run an safc-I and at cold nights at calder it

ran into R&R almost instantly.

R&R is there to protect your engine from detonating!!!

Power FC is the cure!

SAFC is a patch-up!

[Strik3r]

Im getting an SAFC2 as well this week. Basically, it depends on what power figure your going for. If your happy with under 200rwkw (12psi with fmic,air filter and exhaust should see you to 190+ depending on other mods) then the SAFC2 can map the airflow to trick the ECU to thinking there is less air at certain rev points where the ECU is R&Ring because it thinks there is too much air flow.

As others have said, it is only a bandaid solution, but for my purposes, its enough. in direct answer to your question, yes the SAFC2 will stop the R*R but only to a certain extent. As soon as you want to push that power figure past 200 by upgrading turbo and injectors, your up for a new ECU.

[Links]

You can still exceed the R&R value.. Another problem is the timing goes off the adjusted value not the new value so it picks it off a lower point on the ECU map..

I believe there is ways to get around this by using higher flowing injectors so that even though you are lower down in the map it is injecting the correct amount.. blah blah.. something along those lines.. it's all been discussed before, search for sydneykid's thread on SAFC

[Strik3r]

mmm, sounds like a lot of trouble. Im happy paying $300 for an SAFC2 that should give me +15-20 rwkw and leave it at that.

[psybic]

Bigger injectors with only a SAFC2 would be hard to tune. Alot of correction would be required.

I don't think its hard to understand how an SAFC works. People should firstly work that out with a search, then the answers would be so much more obvious.

Its only altering the signal to the AFM input into the ECU. Thats the ONLY thing it alters. It uses other inputs to work out how much by, like RPM, TPS... but thats ALL it actually has any effect on...

Ofcourse, changing the signal saying how much air is on the way in, changes things according to the way the ECU deals with that new info, including Ign and Injection control.

Its just shifting the section u are in on the map.

Shifting you slightly closer to, or away from R&R in your case. So you'll put x amount of correction and you'll have that little more air allowed to come in before you hit it.

[recce]

Well I just got my SAFC tunned. It was the old school 5 nobs type. I have to take off 10% of fuel to gain 20 -25rwkw across the rev range. The car felt good at the top end and was pulling much harder. Very happy.

[R33silverS2]

  recce said:

Well I just got my SAFC tunned. It was the old school 5 nobs type. I have to take off 10% of fuel to gain 20 -25rwkw across the rev range. The car felt good at the top end and was pulling much harder. Very happy.

Great Sounds good, that is quite a large result. I got mine today and am very keen on getting it tuned asap! I'm still running the standard turbo and at this stage don't plan on upgrading as 180 - 200rwkw will be quite sufficient for me as a street car. When i get it tuned and dynoed i will post the results. atm i have xforce 3" stainless turbo back, hybrid fmic, blitz stainless pod, turbosmart bov, 11psi of boost, and soon to be tuned safcII . I considered the pfc route but figured it would be more beneficial if i had an aftermarket turbo or hi-flow etc. Just sick of flat spots and terrible fuel econ!

[R33silverS2]

ok i know obviously a power fc would be the best option to overcome this but would it be possible to manually adavance the timimg on the cas along with a tuned safcII that way it wouldn't be running so rich and the advancement in timing could counterbalance the retardation by the ecu??

[Adriano]

as the safc advances the ignition timing as you lean out the mixtures, usually you cant lean them out enough, as the advance gets too high, and detonation occurs, im about to install a jaycar DFA(does the same thing, and im going to retarc the base timing on the cas by about two degrees so that i can pull a bit more fuel out with a safety margin and try to get the full load mixtures up to 12.2:1. If youy dont reatrd the timing, usually you can only lean out the mixtures to about 11.5:1

[GorGasm]

interestingly i have about 10-15% negative dialed in on my SAFC and also have bumped up the timing on my SITC. I think it is pretty borderline detonation but R&R usually cuts out heaps of timing.

[R33silverS2]

cool thanks guys, I installed it today with all the readings n stuff coming up fine so i'll just have to go get it tuned on the dyno next week - can't wait. fingers crossed for some better fuel econ and less noticable flat spots at least.

[VLT025]

  GorGasm said:

interestingly i have about 10-15% negative dialed in on my SAFC and also have bumped up the timing on my SITC. I think it is pretty borderline detonation but R&R usually cuts out heaps of timing.

What kind of power gain do you figure these two items give you? I was thinking of a similar setup, as it's quite a cheap option with seemingly a fair amount of flexibility

[GorGasm]

at a guess youll probably get similar gains to an SAFC. ~15-20kw.

I hope to be able to support a high flow turbo and get to 200-210rwkw with safc and sitc.

The only gripe i have with the SITC is that its adjustment points are too far apart. it adjusts at 800/2400/4000/5600/7200 rpm. I would love to have a 4700rpm adjustment heh.

[GorGasm]

Heres something that might interest a few of you.

This is a datalog of the timing the ECU runs through R&R at about 11-12psi. Notice the sharp drop at 4000rpm and the pickup at 5600 rpm. This is the exact time that you feel R&R and a lot of the reason why it feels so lame.

Its mapped against rpm and AFM voltage. AFM voltage at the start of R&R is at 4.2v.