Pinging Dilema - Need Advice

[Drivebai]

Hey all,

I have an R33 GTST. I have GCG hiflow turbo with all supporting mods. Z32 AFM, injectors fuel pump PFC EBC etc.

I have taken it to my tuner and the car will ping in the higher revs

The first time he said it was bad batch of fuel (BP ultimate).. so i took it back with a differnt batch. The car was stil pinging. He was adamant that it is bad fuel. (Car made about 220rwkw) To prove it was bad fuel he put in Octane booster and the car jumped up to 240rwkw with a bit of tweaking. He then pulled it back to about 220rwkw just so i wouldn't have to use octane booster all the time.

Now over some months i tried different fuel Vpower, vpower racing. etc. Would always ping up top on high boost. ( i back off straight away when the engine light flashes). I decided to check my AFM and found it was covered in oil. I bought the AFM second hand and didn't check or clean it before putting it in. the previous guy must have been using oil based filter or something.. a quick clean and the car is running much smoother but still pinging.. Also i got a metal intake pipe installed, which made the car feel stronger. But it would still ping on some occasions usually the first time i give it a hit, then after that it wouldn't ping anymore.

Now i took it back to my tuner and without touching the tune, the car made 240rwkw but it was still pinging the second run made 220rwkw with no ping which my tuner said that the PFC is self correcting it and pulling it back to protect the engine.

Again he says bad fuel. The car has now been put back to 220rwk with no ping highest knock is 15 to protect the engine. But the car just feels lifeless.. it's not even fun to drive anymore.

Now what is causing the ping? my tuner says its fuel but i just can't see how i've been getting bad fuel all this time.

Could it be my cat? its a hiflow catco one 3" but the body isn't much bigger than the ends.. should i try metalcat or something. I have a 3" bellmouth front/dump pipe, should i go for split dump?

My tuner says to get more power i will need cams. But i just think the car should be making more power if i can just find out why it's pinging. it's just boring to drive now. before i took it back to him the car pulled hard, but since the detune it's just crap.

Now i really like my tuner, he's done alot for me, but do you think i should take it to someone else? it feels like i'm stabbing him in the back if i do.. haha. The reason i'm posting this is hopefully someone will have some ideas on why it's pinging as my tuner is out of ideas.

Please help!!!!

[poobah]

i had similar problems with my rb20, i thought it was fuel, and tried all types, even used ocatane boost, still was pinging

at top end. i was told to adjust the timing, so i adjusted the crank sensor(i think thats wat its called) and moved it a few degrees to the left.

pinging stopped...

[Strik3r]

im sorry, a bad batch of fuel happens once in a blue moon.. not every time you fill up.. no direspect to your tuner, but if hes saying its bad fuel every time, then maybe its worth taking it elsewhere for a touchup tune. retarding the timing a few degrees can help, but your removing power and changing the tune.. i wouldnt be doing this without having it on a dyno to see the impact its having.

take it somewhere else to get a touch up. if they cant make it work, at least you know your tuner isn't full of hot air. then you can start considering other possible reasons.

[Cubes]

Check the motors not breathing excessively, fit a catch can. If your still getting a little oil in piping look at the turbo.

Failing that try another tuner.

[Marco-R34GTT]

im sorry, a bad batch of fuel happens once in a blue moon.. not every time you fill up.. no direspect to your tuner, but if hes saying its bad fuel every time, then maybe its worth taking it elsewhere for a touchup tune.

I was gonna say the same thing, sounds fishy... Bad tradesman blames his tools...

[The Mafia]

my tuner said that the PFC is self correcting it and pulling it back to protect the engine.

after this comment alone, get another tuner.

The car went from 240rwkw then to 220rwkw and for the tuner to just blow you off by saying "The powerfc is taking timing out" is crap.

Powerfc's don't do this.

I don't think your tuner knows what he is doing..

New Tuner!

[paulr33]

the pfc faq in my sig covers dealing with knocking and identifying it

what levels of knocking are you seeing under normal operation?

[Drivebai]

Under normal operation the knock level is really low maybe 5 -12. But when it's knocking it can be between 80-95.

I don't have excess oil in my pipes. Just the AFM had oil on it from the previous owner.

Before he detuned it, the first run on the dyno hit 240rwkw but it would be pinging. Then do a second run straight after (no tuning) and it would hit 220 no pinging you can see the graph is slightly lower all the way through the rev range.

Weird!!

If you turn the car off and do it again the same thing would happen.

[paulr33]

ok forget power and rwkw they are useless. when is it knocking?

on max load? at a certain rpm? when you do a specific driving pattern?

up hills?

[Drivebai]

Hi Paul,

It will knock only on WOT or close to WOT. Can happen on a straight road and usually between 5k - 6kish RPM.

[paulr33]

read the pfc and learn how to use map tracer to debug where it is then just back out some timing in those areas

should take no more than 10 minutes on the street with a friend

[Drivebai]

Thanks Paul.

would love to give this a go however now he has detuned it so it doesn't knock anymore. but now drives like crap.

Also if i take it to another tuner could my previous tuner have locked the tune? how do i find out it the tune has been locked?

[The Mafia]

I'd be doing simple things like measuring fuel pressure, and AFM voltage, when this particular problem arises also.

Edited May 6, 2007 by The Mafia

[Drivebai]

Thanks mafia.

Yeah it appears instead of just adjusting it up top when it is pinging he just retarded the whole thing so now the whole curve is just crap. Not too fussed about peak power, but the lowe end and midrange has been dropped as well which makes it not very fun to drive.

[chunkylover]

I also have the same problem, my tuner said to get the injectors cleaned and check the cat. I also have a adjustable ex cam gear (came with car). and its about 4deg retard. He said that it doesnt need an adjustable cam gear on stock cams and said to set it on zero. But i read here somewhere that it gives a few KW??

Edited May 6, 2007 by chunkylover

[Drivebai]

Hey Chunkylover,

A few people have got good results with ex cam gear. Why did he say to check the cat? will the cat cause it to ping?

[moonus]

hey dude, u checked ur coils? btw ur tuner wudnt be matty wud it?

[Drivebai]

Hey Moonus,

Got splitfire coil packs in there. Car is not missing on the dyno.

NAh Hitman didn't tune my car. he has tuned my car before when i had an safc. but took it to a different place as it was closer than penrith.

WHy do you ask if it was matty?

[moonus]

oh k i c...it just seems like sumthing that hitman may say..lol..no but srsly, if it is bothering u so much (and i know it would me too) take it somehwere else. at what rpm does it start to detonate and through which gears. btw why did u detune it?

[Drivebai]

Well on the road it pinged in first, but then i would back off straight away. It would ping in 2nd as well if i hammer it from 2nd gear. Pink around 5K -6K RPM. Dyno was in 4th gear and it pinged then.

So frustrating. he detuned it to stop it from pinging. but it has affected the whole rev range