Safcii With Rb20

[GTS4-32]

Hey guys, i'm having a bit of a dilemma with my car ATM.

My current modifications to my R32 GTS4 (RB20) are:

-HKS GT2530

-gt-r injectors with resistor pack

-FMIC

-Apexi SAFCII

-Electronic Boost controller

-BOSCH Fuel pump

-HKS Exhaust etc.

At the moment my engine management is controlled by some ancient Apexi piggyback type system specifically tuned for my modifications along with an SAFCII I purchased a few months ago to tune and make the car run a bit better than it was.

I was informed by my tuner that i might not be able to just run my SAFCII with my standard ECU because there might be some affects with my piggyback system once out, as it might be controlling more than they thought.

Now i was thinking that i could use my SAFCII with my standard ECU and GT-R injectors as long as as you have a resistor pack (which i do) - I always thought you could run your GT-R injectors with a resistor pack on your standard ECU.

Can my goal of a reliable 200kw be achieved with an SAFCII with these mods over my standard ECU?

Thanks in advance.

Edited August 19, 2007 by GTS4-32

[The Mafia]

I know this is an easier way out, but how about getting a GTR Powerfc and running that? You can get rid of the resistor pack, as the Powerfc will work perfectly. Just need a loom adapter ($130) and switch a few wries around (I've done it and can provide a wiring diagram)

Sell all of your other gear, and you should make up half of the costs.

I'm looking into getting the D Jetro RB26 powerfc to work with the RB20 and RB25, then you could throw away your AFM too.

[GTS4-32]

Im not looking for an alternative atm, i just want to work with what i got now if its possible.

[abu]

I know this is an easier way out, but how about getting a GTR Powerfc and running that? You can get rid of the resistor pack, as the Powerfc will work perfectly. Just need a loom adapter ($130) and switch a few wries around (I've done it and can provide a wiring diagram)

Sell all of your other gear, and you should make up half of the costs.

I'm looking into getting the D Jetro RB26 powerfc to work with the RB20 and RB25, then you could throw away your AFM too.

I read about the GTR PFC running on RB20/25 but didn't stay up to date with the thread.

Where are the looms available from?

Sorry to go off topic

Thanks,

Abu

[abu]

With the above modifications you can make 200rwkw, even on standard injectors.

Your issue now is working out if you can remove the piggy back ECU, and use the SAFC II.

As far as I am aware you cannot run after market injectors on a SAFC II, as it cant be calibrated, thats what I have always been told and have always read, but that could be different for GTR injectors with the resistor pack.

But as far as I am aware the resistor pack for the GTR injectors only changes the injectors from high impedance to low impedance, or vise versa? Don't quote me on that, thats just what I remember off the top of my head.

But if that is the case, that means they wont run on standard ECU as the injectors have a higher flow rating to standard RB20 ones, so it will be hard, if not impossible to tune it with an SAFC?

BUT if you can run the standard injectors on the STD ECU, then there is no problem tuning the GTR injectors through an SAFC II.

I'm just trying to work this out in my head, and I am not sure on the specific details, but I am just addressing some of the points you need to consider, and maybe someone who knows specifically, can clarify for you.

What I think you should do is scrap the piggy back computer that is in there, and put it standard RB20 injectors, if you don't have them in there already and get the SAFC II installed and tuned.

With the right boost/tune you will get to 200rwkw on STD injectors, but probably not recommended that you go any higher then that as they will close to maxing out.. The harder you push them the more prone they will be to give in.

Hope some of that brain storming helps. Good luck!

Thanks,

Abu

Edited August 19, 2007 by abu

[GTS4-32]

Hey Abu, thanks for your input.

Although, when I thought about it, and what i've sort of gathered reading around the forum is that the only reason you would use resistor packs for the gt-r injectors was for the ECU to think that they're the standard high-impedency injector, that way not needing to scrap the std ECU, and how using an PowerFC won't need you to retain the resistor pack (hope i'm making sense and havn't been misguided).

If my assumptions are correct, then i wouldn't think it would be a problem using as SAFCII on top to work with.

Thanks,

Steve.

[Adriano]

If you get a PFC, youll need to keep the resister pack, i would scrap the lot and get a remap, heaps cheaper, and great results, see CEF11E or Dr.Drift

[chrissso]

^ what he/she said, pretty sure you can remap r32 ecus to whatever you like. Not sure if you need the resistor pack.

[GTS4-32]

Yea that was the plan before i purchased the safcII, the only reason i didnt stick with it is because i spoke to a couple tuners and they told me its a big risk, because they could get your car running great, with good results and running well or they can completely screw up the whole setup where you wouldn't be able to get your car running out of there, they said its a risk people take. Thats the only reason i sort of backed off. Is what people telling true or you haven't heard of this before?

Unless they (Dr. Drift, CEF11E) can give me re-assurance that my car will be fine and they'll get it running better than before without these extra junk, then i may consider it.

[abu]

Yea that was the plan before i purchased the safcII, the only reason i didnt stick with it is because i spoke to a couple tuners and they told me its a big risk, because they could get your car running great, with good results and running well or they can completely screw up the whole setup where you wouldn't be able to get your car running out of there, they said its a risk people take. Thats the only reason i sort of backed off. Is what people telling true or you haven't heard of this before?

Unless they (Dr. Drift, CEF11E) can give me re-assurance that my car will be fine and they'll get it running better than before without these extra junk, then i may consider it.

Dr Drift does a fairly good job and has for a lot of people on here and on NS.com

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=181157

^Bit of feedback from members.

It just depends how much you want to spend, I mean if you want to push it to 200rwkw why use a REMAP when a SAFC would do the same thing or you.

SAFC cost about $250, thats what I paid for an almost brand new one, then installation - yourself, and tune $150, as appose to $600 - $1000 for a remap, and you will make similar if not the same power.

There is nothing wrong with the REMAP, if anythere its better than a SAFC fuel only computer.

I am still thinking you cant run GTR injectors with the SAFC, I suggest you get that clarified by someone, but the REMAP can support anything, Z32, after market injectors etc..

Another upside is SAFCII can be switched off to run standard fuel map, so if you dont want to run say 20psi, put it back to 10 and switch the SAFCII to standard fuel map.

At any stage if you want to put the car back to stock, say standard fuel pump, turbo, stock cooler, you can always just take the SAFC II out and run the standard ECU tune as its only a piggy back computer.

SAFC II can also support 2x fuel maps, so high boost/low boost, or an economy map and a high boost map etc..

REMAP, your stuck with the tune on there, if you want to get it changed, take it back to the tuner. thats the down side.

If you put the car back to stock, you will need to get the REMAP taken out, and I am not sure if thats possible.

Thanks,

Abu

Edited August 20, 2007 by abu

[abu]

http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/index.p...howtopic=251404

Heaps of information about running GTR injectors on a RB20.

I havent had time to read through it yet, but I will have a read of it once I get back from my lunch break.

Thanks,

Abu

Edited August 20, 2007 by abu

[BHDave]

Abu; dude, you need to think about what you want to type before you type. You just seem to go around in circles.

gts4-32; A real time re map of your stock ecu will give excellent results. I suspect the tuners you have talked to thought you were talking about a generic chip swap, which are generally a best guess based on the information you give, as opposed to a proper real time tune.

And just clarifying what some of the other guys have posted, you definately need to keep the resistor pack. Your safc can run bigger injectors, though it is not ideal. Thats why it needs switchable maps for high and low boost settings, particularly if your stock afm runs out of resolution.

You really need to get rid of one of the piggy backs. Can you post pics of the old apexi unit so we can figure out what it is?

[GTS4-32]

Abu - I already have a safcII and got it tuned with no difference to what i began with. Except its not controlling the fuel, the other piggyback is. Thats why i was asking if the safcII can run gtr injectors so i can rip the other junk out. But then the tuners told me it may be controlling more than they thought, because they seen more wires going in all directions, they told me it was best to keep it in there just in case. But i really dont want it in there. I wanna have 1 computer controlling air and fuel.

Btw how do you switch the maps for high-low boost settings on the safcII?

BHDave - This is what the other computer looks like:

Sorry about the poor photos, my phones all i got on me atm. But this is what they read;

-F-MANAGE - AID (AUTO INJECTOR DRIVER)

-F-MANAGE - Q/N DC Engine Management

Some old apexi computer that nobodies seen before.

What do you think?

[toffy]

i think you should pull it all out n sell it along with the safc to fund a remap , piggy back chips like them are like putting a bandaid over a gaping wound, sure it will soak up the blood and hold it together for a minute, but its not fixing the problem

[BHDave]

I had a quick search and yeah, there's bugger all info out there.

I found an old post on performance forums where the guy reckoned xspeed could tune them. That doesn't really help but atleast gives you a lead to find out what they are. From the look of it they are the ancestors of the safc and sitc. Are there any trim pots on there that can be adjusted with a little screwdriver or anything like that? can you open them?

Anyway, http://www.xspeed.com.au/index.php if you want to follow that up

If it's running badly and you want to sort it out properly then it's worth talking to dr drift about a remap and removal of the piggy backs i think.

[abu]

Abu - I already have a safcII and got it tuned with no difference to what i began with. Except its not controlling the fuel, the other piggyback is. Thats why i was asking if the safcII can run gtr injectors so i can rip the other junk out. But then the tuners told me it may be controlling more than they thought, because they seen more wires going in all directions, they told me it was best to keep it in there just in case. But i really dont want it in there. I wanna have 1 computer controlling air and fuel.

Btw how do you switch the maps for high-low boost settings on the safcII?

BHDave - This is what the other computer looks like:

Sorry about the poor photos, my phones all i got on me atm. But this is what they read;

-F-MANAGE - AID (AUTO INJECTOR DRIVER)

-F-MANAGE - Q/N DC Engine Management

Some old apexi computer that nobodies seen before.

What do you think?

Okay maybe I am slightly confused..

But APEXi SAFC II is a FUEL only computer so what did they tune, and what exactly is it controlling if its not controling the fuel!?

Its displayed as like TYPE A & B, that is the 2 maps that the SAFC II has to interchange between..

Get that other thing ripped out and get the SAFC II tuned to run the fuel side of things.. thats what needs to be done in simple terms.

Thanks,

Abu

Edited August 20, 2007 by abu

[GTS4-32]

i dont think they tuned anything, they wouldve just installed it. Im gonna have to get another tuner to have a look and see what they can do with it.

Thanks for your inputs guys, its been much appreciated.

Cheers,

Steve.

[QWK32]

the safc only changes the afm signal voltage so the ecu is tricked into think it is getting less/more air flow. so if you tune the safc to trick the ecu that its getting more airflow then it really is it will compensate and inject more fuel. thats how you can tune the a/f maps with it.

i cant see any reason why the gtr injectors cant be used. you need the resistor pack so they will work with the high impedance signal from the standard ecu and the safc to tune the amount of fuel going in. bigger injectors = more fuel. you would then need the safc to reduce the amount of fuel being injected so that you aren't running rich on say light throttle. and visa versa on full throttle, more fuel may be needed.

[chrissso]

^ yeah you can do that, but it's a fart.

Any changes you make to the a/f signal effects the timing output from the ecu. Generally, if you drop the voltage at high revs to lean an enigine out, it increases timing, which can cause detonation.

I haven't heard of any issues with remapping the stock ecu. Find a good tuner....

[Dr_Drift]

Unless they (Dr. Drift, CEF11E) can give me re-assurance that my car will be fine and they'll get it running better than before without these extra junk, then i may consider it.

Consider it DONE!

Reassured?

0425818755 if you would like to talk about it, or to book it in.

Sam