Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Seems we started taking over Daz's build thread with the gearbox talk in GTRs, I thought we could get a new thread that will help for searching in the future as I would really value any real world input you guys have on selecting some cogs.

For a Track / Circuit car what are the gearbox options out there and approximate cost?

Any specific experiences? Known issues, weak points, maintenance, ratios?

So besides the PPG, PAR, OS sets we have some sequential boxes. Hollinger, OS88?, Trust also do one???

Michael

I've used alot of them.

The quaife (trust) boxes are okay but have issues with the lay shaft and gear teeth. The dog engagements are pretty good they are firm and positive. Parts are getting harder to get so I wouldn't use one unless you have spares.

PAR box I have was average. I think I got a bad one though as others I had driven were much better. It was a syncro box but the engagement teeth on 2nd and 3rd kept stripping off the actual gear and hence loosing drive.

The PPG offering is really good as far as dog boxes that ive used go. Its fairly cluncky to get used to but once you learn to be rough enough with it they shift very well. Im yet to find any wekaness as such but i know of others who have found problems. Be it driving style or design im not sure.

Im currently fixing my sequential box after it broke 3rd from lack of maintainance. Its a good box with a gear indicator (will be on my AIM dash now though) The only problem I had when it was fitted was the whole pulling it out all the time for inspection and servicing. I let it go a bit and hence ran into problems. The cost to get a clutch and flywheel to suit was a real killer and the other reason ive let it sit for a while as they also needed to be replaced.

The up keep on any dox box or other is pretty massive when you consider how oftern the car gets driven. We used to pull mine out every 5-6 days of racing and inspect it just to be safe. Since buying a kinder suprise aftermarket box I have left it in the hole and not worried about it. Now after 10 days its really starting to get lazy and you can feel the gear changes being baulked. Its some form of straight cut thing but I have no idea what as yet. Been pretty good to me though considering everything else prior bar the PPG broke within 6 months.

okay a bit of googling came up with a quafe box. Do they still manufacture Trust gear?

anyone seen this and know costs???

http://www.quaife.co.uk/Nissan-Skyline-GTR...it-straight-cut

EDIT: Thanks for the above post! Heaps of information. :D

Yep trust boxes are just a quaife set. However the billet optional sandwich plate is made buy trust.

I dont know of anyone who's ever bought new but second hand a good one is worth roughly 5-6K and they are getting harder to get parts for as some of them are no longer being produced. Lay shafts are one of them

you'd be better off with the extra cash and buying a PPG which you know you can get all the parts for come time to service/replace things

Yep trust boxes are just a quaife set. However the billet optional sandwich plate is made buy trust.

I dont know of anyone who's ever bought new but second hand a good one is worth roughly 5-6K and they are getting harder to get parts for as some of them are no longer being produced. Lay shafts are one of them

you'd be better off with the extra cash and buying a PPG which you know you can get all the parts for come time to service/replace things

hrm okay thanks.

But the cost of the ppg and maintenance, you might as well get OS-88 or a hollinger? If you are maintaining dogs it might as well be sequential? I'm sure I could find a second hand Hollinger for $15k and OS-88 a bit cheaper?

We used to pull the PPG out every 5-6 days. 7 days IF there was not enough time between events.

I have absolutly no idea what the recommended intervals are. Thats just the time frame I used as Id find minimal wear and what was worn had not cause any detrimental damage by that stage.

Its probably longer than what I used but I did it all myself and had the time so wasn't worried.

Thats the exact reason I ended up with a seq box. The up keep of the dox boxes was still expensive so I saved the cash and bought something better, I didn't look after it and paid the price in the long run. Its still sitting here on the floor of my living room. Chipped dog's and hairline cracks were the biggest concern I had with the PPG. The PAR boxes broke, I have a customer or two who has the same stroies about the PAR.

If you find a second hand hollinger for 15K then make sure you have it serviced and be prepared to spend another 4-5K getting it up to standard.

Also dont forget the clutch arangement you'll need as well, another couple of grand there.

Is Needham an option???. I used one in my old Sports Sedan and it was great. Straight cut and smooth as for what it was. I liked the shift pattern to,,,1st was where 5th is in a line box (gated) and 2nd was where 1st is and so on.

Neil.

I do like those shift patterns neil.

They take a bit of getting used to if you drive a manual tow car though!!

A mate of mine has a gemini sport sedan with one but its far from smooth to shift with. Last time I drove it the box felt like it was going to fall out unless you got a massive run up before wacking the gear shifter!

Was probably just his box though as the entire car is the most under maintained POS.

Was yours a 4 or 5 speed Neil??

Edited by Risking

thanks Risking, so what exactly is done to the ppg when pulled down every 6 days? just basic clean up of the dogs? or buying parts to freshen it up? i know very little about the dog setups as i havent needed to touch mine as yet but would be keen to know whats involved.

I would go a holinger in a flash but 22k is alot of cash when ive spent soo much already on the motor it just gets out of control.

I do like those shift patterns neil.

They take a bit of getting used to if you drive a manual tow car though!!

A mate of mine has a gemini sport sedan with one but its far from smooth to shift with. Last time I drove it the box felt like it was going to fall out unless you got a massive run up before wacking the gear shifter!

Was probably just his box though as the entire car is the most under maintained POS.

Was yours a 4 or 5 speed Neil??

Of course you like that shift pattern,,,It the right way of doing it.

No they don't ya big girl,,,I drink beer while Mel tows the car home. :):):D and besides we use an auto.

Mine was great,,I loved it. After using and breaking 4 standard boxes,,,The needham was fantasic. Sure it's a slam into the next cog,,but thats what straight boxes are all about,,,the right revs at the right time makes it easy. I think I only ever used 2nd by mistake once. It was a 5 speed by the way.

Neil.

these options need prices!

Michael the boxes you listed range from $2k to $25k.

I've decided to go PAR in the nugget because it get the cheapest of everything :) I'm happy to break 10 of them over 10 years before it catches up with the cost of the hollinger :)

these options need prices!

Michael the boxes you listed range from $2k to $25k.

I've decided to go PAR in the nugget because it get the cheapest of everything :) I'm happy to break 10 of them over 10 years before it catches up with the cost of the hollinger :)

I was thinking the same thing!

Rhys

thanks Risking, so what exactly is done to the ppg when pulled down every 6 days? just basic clean up of the dogs? or buying parts to freshen it up? i know very little about the dog setups as i havent needed to touch mine as yet but would be keen to know whats involved.

I would go a holinger in a flash but 22k is alot of cash when ive spent soo much already on the motor it just gets out of control.

I used to just file the dogs square again. Used to find that the edges would get mushroomed over a little. If I kept ontop of it they would usually be pretty good the nixt time it was looked at. I only ever bought a few bearings for it, never had much in the way of replacements. If anything it was over maintained.

hey brad, what type of sequential do you have that broke 3rd?

Richard it was an OS88. Once it was stripped was found that the splines on the shaft that locate 3rd had sheared. Being a modular shaft design all the gears are obviously splined. I had bought it and not bothered to inspect anything. Didn't last long before failing. Unfortunatly I didn't research its history.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • So, that is it! It is a pretty expensive process with the ATF costing 50-100 per 5 litres, and a mechanic will probably charge plenty because they don't want to do it. Still, considering how dirty my fluid was at 120,000klm I think it would be worth doing more like every 80,000 to keep the trans happy, they are very expensive to replace. The job is not that hard if you have the specialist tools so you can save a bit of money and do it yourself!
    • OK, onto filling. So I don't really have any pics, but will describe the process as best I can. The USDM workshop manual also covers it from TM-285 onwards. First, make sure the drain plug (17mm) is snug. Not too tight yet because it is coming off again. Note it does have a copper washer that you could replace or anneal (heat up with a blow torch) to seal nicely. Remove the fill plug, which has an inhex (I think it was 6mm but didn't check). Then, screw in the fill fitting, making sure it has a suitable o-ring (mine came without but I think it is meant to be supplied). It is important that you only screw it in hand tight. I didn't get a good pic of it, but the fill plug leads to a tube about 70mm long inside the transmission. This sets the factory level for fluid in the trans (above the join line for the pan!) and will take about 3l to fill. You then need to connect your fluid pump to the fitting via a hose, and pump in whatever amount of fluid you removed (maybe 3 litres, in my case 7 litres). If you put in more than 3l, it will spill out when you remove the fitting, so do quickly and with a drain pan underneath. Once you have pumped in the required amount of clean ATF, you start the engine and run it for 3 minutes to let the fluid circulate. Don't run it longer and if possible check the fluid temp is under 40oC (Ecutek shows Auto Trans Fluid temp now, or you could use an infrared temp gun on the bottom of the pan). The manual stresses the bit about fluid temperature because it expands when hot an might result in an underfil. So from here, the factory manual says to do the "spill and fill" again, and I did. That is, put an oil pan under the drain plug and undo it with a 17mm spanner, then watch your expensive fluid fall back out again, you should get about 3 litres.  Then, put the drain plug back in, pump 3 litres back in through the fill plug with the fitting and pump, disconnect the fill fitting and replace the fill plug, start the car and run for another 3 minutes (making sure the temp is still under 40oC). The manual then asks for a 3rd "spill and fill" just like above. I also did that and so had put 13l in by now.  This time they want you to keep the engine running and run the transmission through R and D (I hope the wheels are still off the ground!) for a while, and allow the trans temp to get to 40oC, then engine off. Finally, back under the car and undo the fill plug to let the overfill drain out; it will stop running when fluid is at the top of the levelling tube. According to the factory, that is job done! Post that, I reconnected the fill fitting and pumped in an extra 0.5l. AMS says 1.5l overfill is safe, but I started with less to see how it goes, I will add another 1.0 litres later if I'm still not happy with the hot shifts.
    • OK, so regardless of whether you did Step 1 - Spill Step 2 - Trans pan removal Step 3 - TCM removal we are on to the clean and refill. First, have a good look at the oil pan. While you might see dirty oil and some carbony build up (I did), what you don't want to see is any metal particles on the magnets, or sparkles in the oil (thankfully not). Give it all a good clean, particularly the magnets, and put the new gasket on if you have one (or, just cross your fingers) Replacement of the Valve body (if you removed it) is the "reverse of assembly". Thread the electrical socket back up through the trans case, hold the valve body up and put in the bolts you removed, with the correct lengths in the correct locations Torque for the bolts in 8Nm only so I hope you have that torque wrench handy (it feels really loose). Plug the output speed sensor back in and clip the wiring into the 2 clips, replace the spring clip on the TCM socket and plug it back into the car loom. For the pan, the workshop manual states the following order: Again, the torque is 8Nm only.
    • One other thing to mention from my car before we reassemble and refill. Per that earlier diagram,   There should be 2x B length (40mm) and 6x C length (54mm). So I had incorrectly removed one extra bolt, which I assume was 40mm, but even so I have 4x B and 5x C.  Either, the factory made an assembly error (very unlikely), or someone had been in there before me. I vote for the latter because the TCM part number doesn't match my build date, I suspect the TCM was changed under warranty. This indeed led to much unbolting, rebolting, checking, measuring and swearing under the car.... In the end I left out 1x B bolt and put in a 54mm M6 bolt I already had to make sure it was all correct
    • A couple of notes about the TCM. Firstly, it is integrated into the valve body. If you need to replace the TCM for any reason you are following the procedure above The seppos say these fail all the time. I haven't seen or heard of one on here or locally, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. Finally, Ecutek are now offering tuning for the 7 speed TCM. It is basically like ECU tuning in that you have to buy a license for the computer, and then known parameters can be reset. This is all very new and at the moment they are focussing on more aggressive gear holding in sports or sports+ mode, 2 gear launches for drag racing etc. It doesn't seem to affect shift speed like you can on some transmissions. Importantly for me, by having controllable shift points you can now raise the shift point as well as the ECU rev limit, together allowing it to rev a little higher when that is useful. In manual mode, my car shifts up automatically regardless of what I do which is good (because I don't have to worry about it) but bad (because I can't choose to rev a little higher when convenient).  TCMs can only be tuned from late 2016 onwards, and mine is apparently not one of those although the car build date was August 2016 (presumably a batch of ADM cars were done together, so this will probably be the situation for most ADM cars). No idea about JDM cars, and I'm looking into importing a later model valve body I can swap in. This is the top of my TCM A couple of numbers but no part number. Amayama can't find my specific car but it does say the following for Asia-RHD (interestingly, all out of stock....): So it looks like programable TCM are probably post September 2018 for "Asia RHD". When I read my part number out from Ecutek it was 31705-75X6D which did not match Amayama for my build date (Aug-2016)
×
×
  • Create New...