Next Step Performance Mods

[LotusGTR]

Guys, my idle is a little high and the tune a little rich so I'm thinking of going to the tuner to sort through these issues. Given there'll be dyno time I may as well consider what upgrades could be done to make the most of the tuning time.

Current set up is

Forged pistons / new rings

Std rods

New R33 crank

Block honed, decked, pressure tested etc

New bearings

New Garrets (7s) - can't really remember the exact spec

Power FC

Adjustable CAM wheels

700cc Tomei injectors (all else in the fuel system is std)

Splitfore coilpacks (old ones were failing)

New oil & water pump

3.5" zorst with high flow cat - rear of the dumps only

Running about 305 RWKW. Can't find last dyno chart (doh) so no more details that that. Engine has done 15k kms so I'd say still pretty fresh.

Next steps are....? I do not want the expense of replacing turbos. Pullng the head off is too hard and expensive

Some things that come to my mind are:

Dumps (which are currently stock)

AFMs (which are currently stock - would these make a difference?)

I'm not chasing a specific power figure but want to maximise the current set up (which has a lot invested in it already)

Cheers.

[LotusGTR]

Found the dyno charts.

Dyno.pdf

[Johnny]

Hey man, nice flames hehe.

Im not sure u wanna do the dumps as they will probably remove the turbos for that so the labour will go up but if you do then maybe throw on some braided lines oil/water for ease of maintenance and reliability in future - possibly even port the exhaust manifolds to get a nice smooth entry and exit of exhaust into the turbos

cams come to mind? a small step up in lift will help out in the power band; thats not really removing the head but still a little work.

AFM's would be a great idea as the ones u have now are stock and getting dated so it may hold back optimal tuning and one day they will 'go' requiring a new set anyways and more $$$ for dyno time.

good luck with the choice man, keep us posted

[zebra]

From what I hear from those in the know R33 and 34 Dump pipes are quite decent upto around 350rwkw, so rather than spending >1000 bucks on somthing that might only gain you 2hp, you could buy some late model dumps for $200.

Are your current afms maxing out? If not i dont see the need to upgrade.

Someone else might be able to elaborate on this a bit more.

[N1GTR]

Changing dumps is a smart move. Also porting the manifolds.

Thats about it without spending any sort of meaningful amount of cash (the labour bill wont be small though as its basically a turbo change)

[Tangles]

New z32 afm's, or 2x Q45 afms (search ebay for special $$) $200 for 2x q45's, resolder the internals yourself to make sure all A-OK.

New Cometic / Greddy / Hks head gasket, 1.2, 1.3 or 1.5mm $400

New Nissan gasket set for all other gaskets (manifolds, etc) $300

Greddy poncam camshafts, springs $1300

New EPP stem seals, valve guides, etc $300

Highflow / porting of the head while camshafts / gaskets are being fitted. $2000

bigger dump pipes, custom, search ebay lol, $500

start saving

at the least grab the AFM's and scour around for better Dump pipes, set aside One thousand for total output for the 4 individual items, delivered to your hand,

dont be afraid of ebay usa/jp

[zebra]

Why would he need all that?????

No need for cams or head work

the motor has been rebuilt so it would have all new gaskets anyway

He doesnt want to take the head off

Q45 Afms would be next to impossible to fit on a low mount 26 and he wouldnt need them anyway

[MrStabby]

The boost seems to fall away a bit from 22psi down to about 18.5, so it would be nice to stop that. I'd guess its due to the restrictive stock dumps, which may also make the boost build a bit lazier than it could with a better setup. A bit of a shame you didnt change them when you did the turbos, but its only money right? If your AFMs are maxing out its safer to get nismos rather than tune past it. IIRC they usually hit about 300 or just a bit less before they read the max 5.1volts.

[R31Nismoid]

Nick - your setup is pretty much perfect.

Anything else is basically added expense for minor, if at all, gains.

What dumps? R32? If so then you could do with changing them... but for the cost? Depends how much you really want to change it

Dumps, possibly a minor gain.

AFMs, no gain

Cams, IMO no gain

head gasket - silly suggestion, no gain

head work (values, guides) again silly suggestion, no gain

The only thing i would be looking at is getting the boost to hold a bit better, this could be dumps and/or boost control related... thats about the only thing I'd really be looking at otherwise you might as well change turbos and go down the 10k worth of additional bits

[LotusGTR]

The boost seems to fall away a bit from 22psi down to about 18.5, so it would be nice to stop that. I'd guess its due to the restrictive stock dumps, which may also make the boost build a bit lazier than it could with a better setup. A bit of a shame you didnt change them when you did the turbos, but its only money right? If your AFMs are maxing out its safer to get nismos rather than tune past it. IIRC they usually hit about 300 or just a bit less before they read the max 5.1volts.

You're telling me but unfortunately when the turbs were done I was all out of money and probably didn't appreciate how diffucult it would be to go back in and do them. Was 2 years ago and I know so much more now than I did then. I guess with AFMs I'll just see if they're maxing out. If so, then replace. If not, leave well enough (and the bank account) alone.

[LotusGTR]

Nick - your setup is pretty much perfect.

Anything else is basically added expense for minor, if at all, gains.

What dumps? R32? If so then you could do with changing them... but for the cost? Depends how much you really want to change it

Dumps, possibly a minor gain.

AFMs, no gain

Cams, IMO no gain

head gasket - silly suggestion, no gain

head work (values, guides) again silly suggestion, no gain

The only thing i would be looking at is getting the boost to hold a bit better, this could be dumps and/or boost control related... thats about the only thing I'd really be looking at otherwise you might as well change turbos and go down the 10k worth of additional bits

I was waiting to hear from you Ash. I'm pretty much on the same page as you but thought some useful comments might come out. The car is slowly becoming more track orientated so one day soon I may have the engine out to get the sump and oil pick up sorted and perhaps I'll do the dumps then. I'll see what Cptn. Tuner say about a boost controller with and without the dumps being done.

Cheers all for your replies and suggestions.

[LotusGTR]

Armed with the above info I've rung the tuner and he's said an EBC would be a worthwhile step. Said dumps were not really necessary, and especially considering the labour cost involved. Said I should look at Apexi AVCR or Turbo Smart E-Boost. Said to make sure they had rpm inputs so you can control the boost at all points in the rev range. Wasn't going to be drawn on what specific power torque increases I might get, but said it would be fairly noticeable.

Suspects the rich tune and high idle are something like a vaccum line having popped off, given the PFC has not been fiddled with since I last had it tuned.

If I go down this road, where is the best place to buy the EBC? Any ideas how much?

Cheers.

[32godzilla]

What about the PFC boost controller kit? Doesn't have rpm inputs but would be a neat install given you've already got the main PFC ECU. Plus you get a boost reading on the hand controller once installed.

[LotusGTR]

What about the PFC boost controller kit? Doesn't have rpm inputs but would be a neat install given you've already got the main PFC ECU. Plus you get a boost reading on the hand controller once installed.

Tuner says it must have an rpm input. Otherwise it just becomes an electronic version of the mechanical boost control it already has.

[LotusGTR]

To round this off the Turbosmart eBoost is now fitted and mysteriously I'm 9 RWKW down on the last dyno run (done ages ago). The EBC was taken out and it was still down by that amount, so prob not the EBC causing the issue. Initially there was an exhaust restriction but that was resolved so we know that is not contributing either. We given up worrying about this for now as dyno hours are racking up with no gain.

However, the car drives a whole lot nicer now. Throttle response, spool up, mid range, part throttle response (I'm probably repeating items but this is how it feels) are all much better. I can hear the turbs a lot better too......

I was really disappointed when I heard the power situation but I'm really happy now I've driven it.

Strange world.

[R31Nismoid]

9rwkw could simply be attibuted to ambient temp.

I wouldn't worry about it

[N1GTR]

So Nick have you got a graph mate?

[LotusGTR]

Attached is dyno sheet. On the boost map you can see the boost is kept at a constant 21ish psi from 3800 rpm where it used to drop off from about 4800rpm. At 2580, 3320 & 4060 rpm the new map is 2psi, 3psi, 3psi higher respectively (roughly). The tuner said they’d take out the hump in the mid range. Apparently the more linear delivery means you can get on the throttle earlier and you actually go faster. They also said the ‘performance feel’ might be reduced by this. Odd as the performance feel is much better according the part of my body that contacts the seat. There are some small power gains between early 3k rpm and mid 4k rpm, but not much to my eye.

I guess what may explain why the chart looks ‘worse’ and the feel is better may be in the torque map which I wasn’t supplied. Perhaps there is better early torque delivery (even if the ultimate amount is less than it was). The other potential reason is the exhaust restriction. I guess it may have been there for a while, I got used to it, and now it’s gone I’m feeling the gain of that. I wouldn’t discount this, but there is definitely a ‘style’ of delivery in this current set up that has never been there before so I’m guessing it’s a combo of both. Maybe there’s a little bit of 'I’ve spent time and money and I want to feel an improvement, so I actually do…….

It’s been a bit of a hassle (the effing EBC was supplied broken, but replaced with no questions asked) and has been costly (yes Ash you told me it was incremental gains at this stage) but I’m not sure that given my time again I’d not do it anyway. I’m really happy with how it feels.

Overall, odd.

dyno.pdf

[R31Nismoid]

Linear is win

Looks like a much nicer setup now, and it holds nicer which was giving you that lacking feeling up higher

[LotusGTR]

Well said. It now hunts down the redline rather than making you feel like short shifting