Jump to content
SAU Community

N1 Oil Pump - Epic Fail

Rezlo

By Rezlo,
in Engines & Forced Induction

 Share

Recommended Posts

Swiper the Fox Grand Master

Swiper the Fox

Posted
Posted
im starting to question myself

i bought a nitto oil pump and now find out dirt shed recomends them

ill find out if i can return it

lol :ninja:

Be careful Pete...next you will be installing a Vi-PEC and removing 4th and 5th gears from your gearbox.

  • Replies 528
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

Marko R1
Marko R1

fuel cut explains the massive flames that gtr's shoot out on the limiter - most gtr's u will see in japan run this way. so my guess is that fuel cut is acceptable but not sure if its better or worse t

zebra
zebra

errr....might want to re-read what you just wrote Marko. No fuel = no flames

JonnoHR31
JonnoHR31

same shit for an oil pump, engine is still stopping and starting in the same way. the only difference would be between different ecu's, for example, a stocker rb30e ecu cuts fuel to all cylinders when

Posted Images

proengines Rising Star

proengines

Posted
Posted
I can assure you yes...they are made here on earth.

What is your concern with the pumps high crack-off pressure?

Where is the need for that much pressure? I left both relief springs in it, I'd just don't see a benefit to it. I'm not knocking the pump, it would be nice to know a little background on it. I don't care if they're made in china as long as they're made properly.

Marko R1 Grand Master

Marko R1

Posted
Posted

i just had a call from jim @ crd...we can finally put this to rest!

jim was heavily involved in the development of what he calls "the ultimate pump" for the rb, some compare it to tomei, jun etc...from this they decided to release a 2010 version which now includes a billet backing plate, the main reason for this is to give it a point of difference from the japanese competitors. he said its like buying a newer version commodore i.e. change the bumpers, headlights etc. simple aesthetic updates to pick up the anti. mechanically, it does not improve the car what so ever which brings me to the next point...he couldn't justify pulling out a 2009 version nitto pump & replacing it with a 2010 as only the headlights have changed so to speak. there is no advantage nor a requirement to run a billet backing plate BUT it sets itself apart from the rest & its another tick in the box, makes sense to me.

100's customers are using the cast backing plate with not 1 failure to date - perfect record!

the pump is competitively priced which also makes it the clear winner!

lastly, the nitto oil pump is MADE IN AUSTRALIA & as jim quotes, "we have some of the best engineers in the world, just look at what else is made here for these cars: gear sets & ecu's"

we even have the best tuner here in australia :banana:

CRD Proficient

CRD

Posted
Posted
the cast plate ones are fine...relax greg...ive used quite a few of them. Ill find out the reason for the change of you like. The answer...evolution...Nitto are constantly reviewing their product range to stay well ahead of the competitors offerings. Anything that can be seen to be improved will be upgraded/updated.

Paul, your spot on, it is in the quest for the ultimate product and evolution.

Not quite bumper bars and headlights as Marko put it, but I guess its a simpler way of trying to explain it in a non technical kind of way.

Hope this helps.

Jim@

TeamCRD

Swiper the Fox Grand Master

Swiper the Fox

Posted
Posted
Where is the need for that much pressure? I left both relief springs in it, I'd just don't see a benefit to it. I'm not knocking the pump, it would be nice to know a little background on it. I don't care if they're made in china as long as they're made properly.

I see a benefit...anything that prevents low oil pressure at any stage that can lead to picking up a bearing is a winner in my books. These engines thrive on high oil pressure, having a constant film of high pressure oil between the journal and bearing is what they need and too often fail when this is lacking.

dazmo Proficient

dazmo

Posted
Posted
ill pick mine up from you when i come back up in a few weeks...keen to come out to the track again?

I will make sure I have one ready to go for you mate. Will be keen to come out to the track again and lend a bit of a hand if needed mate. Maybe next year you should bring up the RED R track car up this way and we can throw a few corners in and both get out there for a bit of fun :D. Will chat to you soon mate.

Marko R1 Grand Master

Marko R1

Posted
Posted
I see a benefit...anything that prevents low oil pressure at any stage that can lead to picking up a bearing is a winner in my books. These engines thrive on high oil pressure, having a constant film of high pressure oil between the journal and bearing is what they need and too often fail when this is lacking.

i wasnt aware that high oil pressure actually protects bearings and journals, makes sense

does the stock oil pump and n1 oil pump run the same pressure as the nitto? what is it approx 120psi?

shanef Grand Master

shanef

Posted
Posted
i wasnt aware that high oil pressure actually protects bearings and journals, makes sense

does the stock oil pump and n1 oil pump run the same pressure as the nitto? what is it approx 120psi?

Higher oil pressure will have a thinner film of oil between the bearings compared to a lower pressure.

If you go around and ask a handful of different engine builders, most likely they will all have their own opinions of what oil pressure (and weight) they like to run.

No, all 3 pumps run different pressures.

waxracing Experienced

waxracing

Posted
Posted
Higher oil pressure will have a thinner film of oil between the bearings compared to a lower pressure.

If you go around and ask a handful of different engine builders, most likely they will all have their own opinions of what oil pressure (and weight) they like to run.

No, all 3 pumps run different pressures.

Please explain how higher pressure will make a thinner oil film

Swiper the Fox Grand Master

Swiper the Fox

Posted
Posted (edited)
Please explain how higher pressure will make a thinner oil film

he's got no idea...its the bearing clearance that dictates the thickness of the oil layer.

Marko 120psi is the bypass pressure of the relief valve...again the bearing clearance and oil feed restrictions will dictate what the oil pressure will be at a given RPM.

Edited by DiRTgarage
dazmo Proficient

dazmo

Posted
Posted (edited)

Spot on Paul you just beat me to posting any engine builder that knows their stuff will dictate what weight of oil to use depending on bearing clearance that they are running. And that will vary from engine to engine depending on what the engine is going to be used for. Anyone that makes broad staetments like the one two posts up obviously does not really have a clue!!!.

Edited by dazmo
Swiper the Fox Grand Master

Swiper the Fox

Posted
Posted
Spot on Paul you just beat me to posting any engine builder that knows their stuff will dictate what weight of oil to use depending on bearing clearance that they are running. And that will vary from engine to engine depending on what the engine is going to be used for. Anyone that makes broad staetments like the one two posts up obviously does not really have a clue!!!.

pressure is just the resistance to the flow of oil...simple stuff really.

waxracing Experienced

waxracing

Posted
Posted
he's got no idea...its the bearing clearance that dictates the thickness of the oil layer.

Marko 120psi is the bypass pressure of the relief valve...again the bearing clearance and oil feed restrictions will dictate what the oil pressure will be at a given RPM.

Yeah thats where i was headed with that

I wanted to just watch them explain it

shanef Grand Master

shanef

Posted
Posted
he's got no idea...its the bearing clearance that dictates the thickness of the oil layer.

Marko 120psi is the bypass pressure of the relief valve...again the bearing clearance and oil feed restrictions will dictate what the oil pressure will be at a given RPM.

yes my mistake, bearing clearance i should have said.

The pump bypass pressure still plays a part paul, as u said depends on what the bypass pressure the pump is set at

Swiper the Fox Grand Master

Swiper the Fox

Posted
Posted
yes my mistake, bearing clearance i should have said.

The pump bypass pressure still plays a part paul, as u said depends on what the bypass pressure the pump is set at

It will only play a part if the engine has enough restriction as the pump on bypass actually depends on the restriction to the flow. if i build an engine with large clearances and no oil gallery restrictor and set the rev limit at around 8000rpm do you think the oil pressure would be enough for the pump to bypass at 120psi...only if the owner is silly enough to rev the tits off it when the oil is cold would it see over 7 bar.

Marko R1 Grand Master

Marko R1

Posted
Posted

i currently run 20-60w in my engine but i question the oil pressure as its almost off the clock...on cold start up it reads 7bar and once warm reads 4bar when on idle, should i consider 10-40w as suggested by my engine builder? bearing clearance is 2thou

then again, oil pressure is my friend as it seems :(

waxracing Experienced

waxracing

Posted
Posted
i currently run 20-60w in my engine but i question the oil pressure as its almost off the clock...on cold start up it reads 7bar and once warm reads 4bar when on idle, should i consider 10-40w as suggested by my engine builder? bearing clearance is 2thou

then again, oil pressure is my friend as it seems :(

Remember oil pressure does not come for free

Back when I was racing formula ford we spent ages getting the oil pressure just right to much and you were wasting hp

You need just enough pressure to stop the metal touching, and its not actual pressure that does that. 120 psi is not going to keep a con rod bearing touching a crank journal

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • MBS206
      Dose's Sometimes DIY and Pay Someone Home & Boat Improvement Thread

      By MBS206 · Posted

      Why are people so insistent on making dirty water?!
    • Dose Pipe Sutututu
      Duncan's V37.......race car?

      By Dose Pipe Sutututu · Posted

      Fark what are the changes of that snapping like that, clean. Nek minnit, custom radiator goes in, with built in oil cooler like those discontinued PWR ones from yesterdeacades ago
    • Duncan
      7 Speed Auto transmission fluid change (Skyline, Q50, Q60, Fuga, Q70, A62 Titan and probably heaps of others including Navara...)

      By Duncan · Posted

      I thought I'd do a write up on an auto transmission fluid change for a the nissan 7 speed Automatic. At some stage the genius engineers decided that the fluid in the trans was "for the life of the transmission", (which seems kind of self supporting to me) and removed the dip stick and fill tube (funnily enough there is still a casting for it). Anyway, for this job you do need 2 specialist tools in addition to regular hand tools, jack and good chassis stands. You need a way to pump fluid up to the transmission; I got one of these but there are plenty of other options: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/364584087070 Don't trust the generic listing though, it does not come with the required adapter for the Nissan 7 Speed. You need one of these, can't do the job without it: https://navarapart.com.au/product/genuine-nissan-patrol-y62-d23-np300-navara-re7-dipstick-fill-connector1 You need a heap of compatible transmission oil. Could be Nissan, could be anything else rated for Nissan Matic S. You need at least 10 litres, I had 15 to give it a better flush... Also, you need some biiig oil catch trays, at least one of these, or bigger if possible (volume was fine, size was very marginal): https://autobarn.com.au/ab/Autobarn-Category/Tools-%26-Garage/Specialty-Tools/Oil-Service/Garage-Tough-Oil-Drain-Pan-Black-16L---GT1068/p/TO03191 Finally, a measuring jug is very useful if your pump does not have volumes marked on it, I got a 6l one: https://www.repco.com.au/oils-fluids/fluid-accessories/measuring-jugs/penrite-measuring-jug-6l-pmj006/p/A5322648 Oh, and gloves.....this stuff is horrible (not as bad as diff oil, but getting there) ....First, jack up your car.....
    • Duncan
      Duncan's V37.......race car?

      By Duncan · Posted

      So I mentioned the apprentice, @LachyK helped take the bonnet off. We just undid the nuts on the hinges and unclipped the gas struts, then pulled the bonnet back a little as the front was catching on the front bar.  I had a good look at everything today and have removed the rams, repaired/reset the hinges and bolted it back together like it never happened. I'll do a separate write up on the repair, and I also removed the poppers from the Fuga today too to save grief down the road.....as said above it is at least $5k to repair retail. I'm also happier about my ability to prepare a race car, and less happy about Nis-nault's engineering (I can hear @GTSBoy sAfrican Americaning) because the top hose of the radiator didn't slip off.......it snapped clean off. By practice I put the hose clamp hard up against the flare on a neck to make it least likely to ever move (thanks @Neil!). I guess that puts a little more pressure on the end of the pipe as it is further away from the rad, but still, that is pretty shit. I've put it back on for now as there was a fair bit of neck still there, but obviously there is no lip on the neck any more so I don't think I'll track it again until I have a new rad. Speaking of which....more research required. It looks like Koyo makes a standard size radiator in ally which I'll grab in the meantime, but I really want something thicker so might have to go custom in the medium term (ouch) Coolant still needs a refill and I have the pressure tester on it over night, but other than a wash down of the engine bay it seems alright. And @MBS206 noted something noisy on the front of the engine and I think I agree....time for a new accessory belt and tensioners I think.
    • Duncan
      Duncan's V37.......race car?

      By Duncan · Posted

      our good friends at nismo make a diff for it, I have one (and a spare housing to put the centre in) on the way. https://www.nismo.co.jp/products/web_catalogue/lsd/mechanical_lsd_v37.html AMS also make a helical one, but I prefer mechanical for track use in 2wd (I do run a quaife in the front, but not rear of the R32)
×
×
  • Create New...