Speeding teen kills- (in a skyline)

[redline2003]

i bet u if the car involved was a 1.5L lancer, there would not b such a fuss, then it would b the driver and not the car, if its a hi-po car its the cars fault and suddendly laws are changed and media frenzies occur, if its a underpowered vehicle then that detail goes unnoticed. in vic we hav a power to weight ratio limiting a p plater(like me) driving a car with more then 125kw @ the wheels(measuered by factory weight and kw at the fly, meaning u cant fill the boot wif lead and drive it legally), there are heaps of r33 turbos, r34s, 200sx's,v8s, even TT supras on their Ps in vic, i own a s14a and while it doesnt break the power/weight law (i think) i dont think a power to weight law in NSW would b effective nor would it b enforced(as it isnt here).media just uses fast imports as a scapegoat,

[raz0r$harP.UK]

Just on that article, I read it myself on Sunday. They referred to the vehicle as 'a high powered Nissan Skyline' and the victim's friend quoted "an 18 year old driving a souped up Nissan." Regardless of power, I don't think these statements are basist and only serve to create generalisations to the public about who drives Skylines.

In another article on Sunday in the same Herald, (talking about a group of gang rapists who have been found guilty), it mentions that the rapists drove a black Nissan Skyline.

If the car in both stories was any other car, like a Ford Laser, I wonder if it would have been included for publication?

[Richelieu]

Just on that article, I read it myself on Sunday. They referred to the vehicle as 'a high powered Nissan Skyline' and the victim's friend quoted "an 18 year old driving a souped up Nissan." Regardless of power, I don't think these statements are basist and only serve to create generalisations to the public about who drives Skylines.

In another article on Sunday in the same Herald, (talking about a group of gang rapists who have been found guilty), it mentions that the rapists drove a black Nissan Skyline.

If the car in both stories was any other car, like a Ford Laser, I wonder if it would have been included for publication?

To add to that, last week in a Gold Coast newspaper there were two separate articles both mentionaing Skylines. One was a story about a Skyline that had been cut in half by a tree when it left the road at speed and included photos and the other involved the driver of a Skyline getting out of his car after some drunk wandered onto the road then punched the drunk on the jaw occasioning bodily harm.

Neither help the image of Skyline drivers. How many incidences involving yob Falcadore drivers get mention?

[slo200]

Just incase anyone wanted any extra info on the accident... i was travelling home and came past the accident not long after it happened. Also my colleague from work lives on the corner where it happened.. firstly, my colleague knows the man who got hit, and he was known for drinkiing quite alot at that pub. He stumbled out and crossed the road, not realising that the car he saw was travelling quite a bit faster than 60km/h( for obvious reasons) that being said, if the driver was not racing then it would be all over.. but because of the speed involved he now faces a jail for a minimum of 2yrs.. for an accident that could have happened to many young drivers.

I doubt very strongly that everyone here can honestly say they have never dragged someone on the street!! Unfortunately things like this happen, and thankfully they open the eyes of a lot of ppl so it doesnt happen that often. 2 people where at fault here and one of them is now dead, the other is now going to have to pay the consequences of his actions.

Everyone knows that Skylines are performance cars, and not all of them are owned by people on these forums, nor are they people that respect them and drive them on tracks to use that performance. You have to admit that there are alot of owners out there with big ego's who constantly need to prove themselves and what they have. And with that will come the Media and police attention, but how do you differentiate an enthusiast to a hoon when they drive the same vehicle?? and that applies to all modified cars not just Skylines. Just remember how much bad media attention was brought on the WRX by all the ram raids across the country, not all WRX drivers are ram raiders, dont take it personally!!

[Southo]

This was in the Local paper this morning (Manly Daily)

I'll post the revevant bits...

Title - Road Toll Begins

Police have confiscated the car, but released it's 18 year old driver who was involved in a fatal accident outside the Narrabeen Sands Hotel on Friday Night.

[name removed] (33) of Collaroy was killed when hit by a Nissan Skyline as he crossed Pittwater road atyt 10.50pm. Northern Beaches Police Inspector Paul Devaney said Mr [name removed] died Instantly.

Police interviewed the P-Plater from Belmore who was driving the Nissan. It was understood the driver was travelling with three other cars but Insp. Devaney said witnesses stated that they were not racing at the time of the accident.

A large part of Pittwater road was closed until 6am on Saturday as Crime Scene investigators took photograhs to reconstruct the accident.

However, At 4am a woman drove thru the crime scene tape and over vital evidence.

Paraphrased (she was chased, breathalised and charged with mid rang Drink Driving)

One of the major pieces if evidence police will be analysing is a 60M skid mark on the road.

Paraphrased ( police are asking witnesses to come forward, car is seized by Parramatta Crash investigation unit for mechanical tests.....

[fatz]

maybe along with the power to weight ratio for younger drivers

there should be a psychological(spelling) test, to weed out the random tools that are generally involved in street racing (take it to the track)

there should be a nsw rule that states,.....if you drive a car while wearing a baseball cap you should loose your license on the spot (that should stir up some of the people on this forum)

and whilst im at it makeing up some rule

'no fat chicks"

[SKY031]

SKY031: thats why he said it was 90% the driver.....

well it wasn't 90% the driver.

It was 100% the driver.

When an innocent person gets shot, is it 10% the guns fault?

When an innocent person gets stabbed, is it 10% the knifes fault?

NO!

I think that a few people need a lesson in taking responsibility for their actions.

[dale]

If the car played no part in it then how did the guy get "runover" the guy didnt simply walk over him. Obviously the car is part of it as without the weapon theres no way of commiting the same crime.

[SKY031]

Well I guess that the government should just ban cars altogether so that this doesn't happen again.

Is that what you want?

Is that the only way that people can be taught that driving is a privilege, not a right?

When it comes to crimes compensation for the victims family, who will be sued?

Nissan motor company, or the person who made the decision to treat the vehicle as something other than a transportation device?

[zRoYz]

well i have read all this thread & to be honest i haven't read 1 post about why this sort of thing keeps happening, yes this time it was a P plater in Skyline so media beats it up big time, but what about the old guy that mowed down the kindy & he was in a comm.

the problem is all the gov's because they will not make any rule that has major voter back lash & doesn't earn them some $$.

1. our roads are just overloaded with amount of pop we have & road toll just keeps going up (if the number of people that die on our roads each year was caused by war etc the gov would take action because voters would make them)

2. driver training is crap for new drivers & proof of this is the amount of times people fail but can just rebook & go again, prac makes perfect but if they had to try so hard just to pass the test what about real world driving with unknown's)

3. there is no recourse for bad drivers & i don't mean drivers who are doing things that are ilegal, i mean bad bloody drivers that do way under speed limits etc like my 81 year old mother.

4. police not knowing rules & bulshit fines so people start 2nd guessing everything they do.

5. once you pass driving test get lic there is no more tests (unless you lose lic) untill your over 70 something & then it's just a letter from your doc saying you can drive ffs does any bloody doc go for a real drive with these people.

WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE & MOST WONT LIKE IT.

1. age limit increased to 18 for lic

2. reflex testing every lic renewal & if fail no lic (most people over 70 would fail)

they say now to drive a car in syd you need reaction time of a fighter pilot, well i can tell you if most drivers out there where fighter pilots we would have no air force.

[RedS14T]

It's obvious the skyline owner was negligent. He left what was reported to be a 60m skidmark. Probably messing around with some friends doing idiotic things that a large amount of people in modified cars can be seen doing everyday. But what about the girl whom drove a Volkswagen Golf with '8' people and lost control into a lightpole that resulted in 2 dead 'boot passengers'?

Was she not negligent in realising the car drove like a piece of shit with so many people in it? I certainly notice the difference in my 200sx with 4 people, handling is alot less agile, acceleration is on par with a v6 commodore.

I feel sorry for the Skyline guy, he's going to get the book thrown at him, not only because he is a young, P-plater performance car owner driving with a pack of modified cars, but because he was MALE. Its a ridiculous double standard which i first realised when i was appealing a minor fine in court, with mid-range DUI females getting the same punishment as low-range males. The fact the female driver 'Volkswagen woman' had expensive lawyers because of her 'supposedly prominent' father only further illustrates the horrible state of the legal system. She got away with NOTHING! Because she was doing the right thing being the only sober person driving her friends home.... Well, if her father is such a 'prominent person' in the community, surely she could afford to send a few friends home in a cab. This incident was described as an 'accident'. I am sure in the media we will find out the Skyline owner did this on purpose, because accidents can't be proved to be accidents without rich lawyers!

[hippy]

good point reds14 ... i can't beleive how people try and blame something else ... how can it be the fault of the car?? did it decide that it wanted to go 100kmhr or whatever it was doing? did it decide that it wanted to make a 60m skid mark? and how about the woman who drove through the crime scene?? did her car decide that it wanted to just keep driving? NO U IDIOTS ... it was the driver ... 10% at fault bollocks ...

[Guilty]

Well after reading what everyone says and also a skyline driver myself, I think it is partly the cars fault. Yes the 18year old was most at fault as he was stupid enough to drive that much over the limit, but all you people say that its got nothin to do with the car?

Yes people can go over 100kmz, probally more in any car, but surely with that much power under the pedal, it does indirectly affect the way you drive. Although i admit that i dont streeet race, i do admit that i drivee a bit faster then i did when i drove my parents Camry. BEcause of the extra power, you tend to drive faster then you would normally do in say a Charade? Saying all this, i do agree that there should more education on younger drivers and being one myself, it is quite unfair for media/govt to generalise on the whole population of skylines drivers as it is quite untrue and unfair in what they are doing.

[VIPERGTSR01]

but a skyline should be able to stop quicker at the same speed (but this can vary quite abit eg weight, ABS etc)

[GTR R35]

I think that you are judging the VW girl a little harshley. One of my staff attended this accident (RFS) and said the conditions were bad, it was inexpierience, weather and peer pressure. We have all done stupid things in our lives, sometimes we are lucky sometimes we are not. This girl was smart enough to not drink after the nominated driver of the VW was seen drinking as was the owner. She had the common sence to not drink and was the one who drove. At 17yo on you P's in a unfamiliar car, in the wet with your "friends" saying it will be OK and they have done it heaps of times would not help. The reason for the crash was not speed or alchol related, but weight distribution. All the weight was on the back wheels and the car just understeered at 50km into a sandstone wall on a blind corner.

While the results were tradgic, the parents of the 2 dead boys thought the court had made the right decision, and told the judge that. Comparing it with a young P plater in a turbo car racing along pittwater road is BS. This kid will suffer the full hit of the law as well as the life long memory of a guy being spread alover his car. For him it is a no win situation, I would rather have the police results than the life long memory of killing some person doing a VERY stupid thing. I know this piece of road well and it is nice a straight, but there is a time and place for everything and the only person responsible is the driver and probably his mates for egging him on to drag. Peer pressure is a very bad thing and many young people have been killed as a result.

I honestly thing Red and Green P and L platers should NOT have turbo or V8 cars as they just amplify the result of inexperienced driving. If you have a old abrina it will take them 20 sec to get to 100km, in a turbo or V8 it is under 10 sec. This can make a huge difference in residential streets with inexperienced drivers in hipo cars. Flame suite on from all the P platers who disagree, but IT IS FACT that 30% of accidents are from 8% of the population (<19yo). IT is also proven that female drivers are LESS inclined to drag and drive hipo cars. This is why there are differences in insurance, police attitudes and court rulings.

[p75153]

I think it the attitude of nearly all P platers that needs to be addressed.

Im what you might call an older Skyline driver with a younger Skyline car (R34), and Im sick to death of P platers lining me up for a drag, at every red light.

There is usually 4 or 5 young guys jammed into the oil-burning Hyundai Excel (with big exhaust tip), that want to take me on.

The tragic incident mentioned above, is the result when they get behind the wheel of a high performance car.

They just think the road is a public drag strip!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

They have some idea that they are invincible and therefore, in my opinion, there should be a restriction on the power of the car that they can drive, just like the motorcycles.

Unfortunately it takes an incident like this to bring them back down to earth.

This invincible attitude and High performance cars do not mix, and this is why I pay an excessive premuim for my insurance. They get a fast car (which impresses their mates),....crash it into the nearest tree, claim the insurance, and then turn around and buy an old Toyota Corrolla, which they should have had in the first place.

You dont get this type of behaviour from more mature Skyline owners, who dont need to prove anything to anyone, as we all know we drive the best cars ever built.

[QuickR33Melb]

It sounds as if the rest of Australia has pretty relaxed laws when it comes to young drivers.

In Victoria

1. Have P plates for a three year period

2. The first three years are restricted to a power rate of 1kw/9kg which makes driving a manual skyline illegal

3. If you lose more than 5 demerit points in a 12 month period you lose your licence for 6 months

4. If you don't desplay P plates it's a $200 fine and three points.

Why is the rest of Australia so much different??????

[SKY031]

QuickR33Melb, don't forget to add that here in Victoria you can't hold a licence until you're 18.

Many states have a younger 'P' age.

Regardless of all of Victorias laws, the road toll is still through the roof here.

You can't change the fact that young people think they're invinsible and live with a "it can't happen to me" attitude.

[Corse]

It takes two to tango, and both the driver and the pedestrian were breaking the law, the only difference is that the pedestrian came off second best.

If I was travelling at the speed limit and a man walked out onto the road in a manner that I was unable to stop, and I run him over in a fasion that killed him, I would have to live the rest of my life with the burden that would be made up of memories, knowing that a man died at my hands, etc.. the mental trauma is not something you I could put into words.

Why does nobody fail to recognise that he broke the law and this was the result of a choice he made? Because he is dead and they want to tip toe around him for 'respect' ? He's DEAD. he doesnt care about youre respect anymore, if he did he wouldent deserve it.

What about his mates? They all have to suffer having a freind die. What about his ****ing family? his mum, who no longer has a son? his kids who no longer have a dad to look up to? what about his wife who now has to take care of the kids and work at the same time to support the family? finances and debt that she can no longer afford to pay? He didnt give enough of a shit to care about any of that.

In melbourne, pedestrians continue to suprise me and push the boundaries of what i thought was normal for a dickhead pedestrian.

I see them walk across a road without looking AT ALL. a ****ing 5 year old knows better, Stop, look left, look right, look left again. was that so ****ing hard?

The ones that do see you may just walk anyway!

I was driving along in a 60km/h zone, where there is a a bridge, and directly next to the bridge on either side, there is a park with a path, so this is the spot where the people who travel along the path cross the road (which is quite regular). There are no markings, or signs at all.

A freind was driving late at night, and saw two people dressed in sprint shorts, a singlet and a number on the front and back run across the road, and continued. Then out the corner of his eye he sees two people stop at the edge of the road, and he continues. Then one of them runs out directly infront of his car without looking. He hit him at about 55km/h, breaking his legs, collar bone, wrist etc. he called an ambo and waited, while someone else called the cops.

This guy was a competitor in some event that they were running and had many freinds present, none of which saw the incident. Many of them abused him verbally with one of them pushing him up against his car and threatning him,

[Mr R32 M-Spec]

I agree with there should be power limits on "p"platers.

You are less likely to speed and do stupid things in a 79 model carolla instead of a 95 model skyline. I hate it when things like this happen as it looks bad for the rest of us.

I have gradually moved up to this car, here's the list

79 carolla SE

84 for laser

92 NA auto silvia

An now after 5 years of driving I have had my skyline and done a few track days and stuff.

I personally think it is wrong when you see P platers in GTR and FD RX7's, they haven't had the experience to be driving these cars around like they do. I have people trying to race me all the time, however luckily I don't like racing on the street. so I just let them tear off.

my apologies to those who are offended by my views