My Car Jerks On Take Off After Willall Tf And Df

[GT-Ricer]

Last week I changed fluids in both my diffs and transmission using Willall R35 product. It is now impossible to smoothly move off the line no matter how I try to feather

the accelerator. My car does three little jerks everytime I take off!

Only if I am pointing downhill and it starts rolling forward by itself at idle, can I smoothly accelerate and there is no "bunny hop".

Otherwise it is "three hops and go" every time! Alteranatively, if I just stomp on the gas, it forgets to hop three times too.

I cannot detect any other "benefit" (?) in my daily driving so I hope it's been worth risking losing my warranty over this little exercise....

Hopefully it will prove it's worth on the track.

Has anyone tried adjusting the clutch settings to get rid off this light swich "on-off-on-off-GO" response from the tranny after filling with Willall fluids?

[Martin Donnon]

Adjust the clutch Touch Points to give your car some creep off the line as most do and the engagement will go back to the way you like it.

This is why Nissan gave lots of different clutch setup parameters to suit different driving styles, fluid conditions, and climates etc.

Alternatively you can wait for Cobb to release their user selectable clutch setup software next month and adjust it any way you want it

Its all in the setup programming of the transmission, and something you can have quickly and easily changed

Some of the 2009 model cars had a fair bit of slack in the clutch takeup programmed in. Hopefully that info helps

Edited April 25, 2010 by Martin Donnon

[Godcla]

" Alternatively you can wait for Cobb to release their user selectable clutch setup software next month and adjust it any way you want it "

That will be sweet.....will this be a free Download Martin that one uses with the AP..?

[Martin Donnon]

Yes I believe so

Cobb are also doing 'Adjustable Launch Control'

Good times ahead for GTR owners!

[GT-Ricer]

Yes I believe so

Cobb are also doing 'Adjustable Launch Control'

Good times ahead for GTR owners!

It's all very well but I don't have COBB AP and my car creeps at idle already. Do we have to induce some slippage into the clutch setting? How will this slippage affect all other gear changes, other than engaging 1st for take off?

[Martin Donnon]

GT-Ricer, who did you buy our products from? I am interested in tracking this one and having a look at the process.

The adjustment concept is to give the GTR more direct engagement so that it doesnt try and make everything super soft by engaging disengaging the clutches (what you can feel) as it does from the factory. Direct drive rather than staggered drive as the TCM tries to do

[GTR-N1]

I'm reading this with interest...

[GT-Ricer]

GT-Ricer, who did you buy our products from? I am interested in tracking this one and having a look at the process.

The adjustment concept is to give the GTR more direct engagement so that it doesnt try and make everything super soft by engaging disengaging the clutches (what you can feel) as it does from the factory. Direct drive rather than staggered drive as the TCM tries to do

The source of the product is immaterial, it came from your can ...LOL. Suffice to say it was drained and re-filled by a trained professional.

Today I asked my son who has the equivalent TF and DF Willall fluids in his EVO X to drive it and he was shocked by how jerky my car has beacome.

He still tried to convince me that I want my car a bit more edgy...I don't think so! It is now almost impossible to drive it in the marning or afternoon rush hour, stop starting at 25-35 kph.

You almost feel you're going to hit someone in front of you any second.

I am wondering what will happen to my launches if we dial in more creep and the clutch is full engaged at 700RPM even before I touch the throttle.

Will my car stall, long before reaching 3000RPM against the brake if the clutch is fully engaged sooner or will pressing the brake disengage it?

I would have thought, from my manual days, that you would want more slip in the clutch before full engagement to achieve a gradual take off.

Surely,if you step off the manual clutch with light throttle, that is when you get the "learner driver's bounce".

Isn't the GT-R clutch designed to increase the pressure gradually rather than on-off-on-off at light throttle take off? That is how it feels now.

Edited April 26, 2010 by GT-Ricer

[druzilla32]

I'm reading this with interest...

As am I...

I get me car back tomorrow with Willall tf.. I wonder how it will feel.

[Martin Donnon]

The source of the product is immaterial, it came from your can ...LOL. Suffice to say it was drained and re-filled by a trained professional.

We would like to know the source of the product. It is of interest to us and hopefully not too much to ask.

Today I asked my son who has the equivalent TF and DF Willall fluids in his EVO X to drive

We have not shipped any EVOX differential fluids in Australia at this stage.

Isn't the GT-R clutch designed to increase the pressure gradually rather than on-off-on-off at light throttle take off? That is how it feels now.

Your GTR clutch is engaging exactly the way Nissan designed it, if you havent changed the software its doing what it has always done, however with better clutch drive out of the fluid being used it can and will accentuate the factory Nissan clutch settings that were pre-programmed into your car. These can be easily adjusted. Hope that puts your mind at rest

Edited April 26, 2010 by Martin Donnon

[GT-Ricer]

We would like to know the source of the product. It is of interest to us and hopefully not too much to ask.

We have not shipped any EVOX differential fluids in Australia at this stage.

Your GTR clutch is engaging exactly the way Nissan designed it, if you havent changed the software its doing what it has always done, however with better clutch drive out of the fluid being used it can and will accentuate the factory Nissan clutch settings that were pre-programmed into your car. These can be easily adjusted. Hope that puts your mind at rest

I stand corrected, our EVO X has Willall TF only, which is what prompted my interest. My son loves it in his Evo so I thought, why not try it in the GT-R?

I have not experienced any issues with my diffs, before or after the changeover. It could be the placebo effect, but my diffs seem to sound a little less noisy when I hear them driving down my driveway

with the driver's window open. There is also a little less shunting noise coming from the tranny under the rear seats, but I have installed heavy duty sound proofing so it's hard to tell.

I will get my Nissan tech to come for a ride with me and adjust the clutch TF this week. I hope it's all good and the new settings don't dull the performance too much.

I use the GT-R mainly when I am alone and on the track. My wife prefers to be driven in the comfort of a bigger car, but I still want a sports car that is driveable in the city traffic,

and not a dedicated "white knuckle" track-only machine.

I will post the outcome of the TP adjustment. Watch this space!

[Martin Donnon]

I will get my Nissan tech to come for a ride with me and adjust the clutch TF this week. I hope it's all good and the new settings don't dull the performance too much.

The good news GT Ricer is that with the right upgraded clutch settings from Nissan your GTR will actually be quicker in a straight line

[GT-Ricer]

The good news GT Ricer is that with the right upgraded clutch settings from Nissan your GTR will actually be quicker in a straight line

I knew you would say that You could be right to a degree. Most guys in the US did not notice any gains in the acceleration times

no matter how extreme or mild the upgraded clutch settings (TP and CC)

On the other hand, our Evo X went from 5.2 sec to 4.6 sec 0-100kph only with cat back HKS exhaust ,no tune, and Willall TF.

Evo X clutches were very slippery before the changeover, so the gains are very dramatic.

I don't expect to shave off 0.6 sec of 3.7 sec my car did before the changeover to Willall TF.

[Martin Donnon]

The Getrag in the Evo X is 'underdone' in terms of clutch engagement, so the additive pack in the fluid really works miracles with making the EVO X launch hard and properly. Characteristically we are seeing gains of 0.15 over the 60 foot mark simply in a fluid change.....and thats a big deal over 400 metres where it translates into tenths

As per your GTR clutch adjustment, take these settings with you - Touch Points A -2. B -2. Clutch Capacity A +2, B + 2

They can key this into the Consult in a matter of minutes and it will give you excellent firm engagement with good smooth takeoff

Most DCTs like to creep on a flat surface - remember as soon as there is a brake input (vs speed threshold) the clutches disengage so it never loads the clutches in traffic situations or during Launch Control activation.

Our GTR creeps (08 JDM with no Touch Point adjustment capability due to JF07A software in the TCM)

Our EVO X creeps (not as much as the GTR)

Our VW Transporter 7 speed DCT creeps more than all of them!

Edited April 27, 2010 by Martin Donnon

[GT-Ricer]

The Getrag in the Evo X is 'underdone' in terms of clutch engagement, so the additive pack in the fluid really works miracles with making the EVO X launch hard and properly. Characteristically we are seeing gains of 0.15 over the 60 foot mark simply in a fluid change.....and thats a big deal over 400 metres where it translates into tenths

As per your GTR clutch adjustment, take these settings with you - Touch Points A -2. B -2. Clutch Capacity A +2, B + 2

They can key this into the Consult in a matter of minutes and it will give you excellent firm engagement with good smooth takeoff

Most DCTs like to creep on a flat surface - remember as soon as there is a brake input (vs speed threshold) the clutches disengage so it never loads the clutches in traffic situations or during Launch Control activation.

Our GTR creeps (08 JDM with no Touch Point adjustment capability due to JF07A software in the TCM)

Our EVO X creeps (not as much as the GTR)

Our VW Transporter 7 speed DCT creeps more than all of them!

Thanks Martin, that's great - we will start off with these values. If we get a different outcome in my 09 ADM, we will

have to spend more time fine tuning it. Let's hope your settings work first time.

You are right about the clutch in the Evo X. It was very slack before but now it bites like a pitbull and we get good wheel spin.

Our Evo bolts off the mark like a scolded cat!

[GT-Ricer]

As per your GTR clutch adjustment, take these settings with you - Touch Points A -2. B -2. Clutch Capacity A +2, B + 2

They can key this into the Consult in a matter of minutes and it will give you excellent firm engagement with good smooth takeoff

We adjusted my clutches today as you suggested. Stock set up was: Touch Points A = 0, B= 0 and Clutch Capacity A= 0, B= 0

My car still hops three times on slow take off, maybe 10% less harshly than before, so it has not been successful.

Changes between gears, up or down, are smooth and firm, oddly, less harsh than at 0/0 setting, despite increased pressure.

What I cannot understand is why my car is silky smooth in reverse, no different to a full automatic torque converter feel, but cannot be smooth in 1st?

Does it use a different clutch for reversing?

[Martin Donnon]

We adjusted my clutches today as you suggested. Stock set up was: Touch Points A = 0, B= 0 and Clutch Capacity A= 0, B= 0

My car still hops three times on slow take off, maybe 10% less harshly than before, so it has not been successful.

Changes between gears, up or down, are smooth and firm, oddly, less harsh than at 0/0 setting, despite increased pressure.

What I cannot understand is why my car is silky smooth in reverse, no different to a full automatic torque converter feel, but cannot be smooth in 1st?

Does it use a different clutch for reversing?

How much Touch Point adjustment did they give it?

Normally a GTR tech will sit in the car with you and adjust the settings as you take off a few times till it suits your feel. Did this happen?

You hit the nail on the head with the reverse thing, thats the GTR trying to engage the clutch smoothly so as not to shock the driver, while in Forwards mode they run a 'multiple stab' at the clutch - which is what you can feel

[GT-Ricer]

How much Touch Point adjustment did they give it?

Normally a GTR tech will sit in the car with you and adjust the settings as you take off a few times till it suits your feel. Did this happen?

You hit the nail on the head with the reverse thing, thats the GTR trying to engage the clutch smoothly so as not to shock the driver, while in Forwards mode they run a 'multiple stab' at the clutch - which is what you can feel

We did the exact settings you gave me: TP: A -2 / B -2, CC: A +2/ B+2.

I didn't have an actual appointment so after waiting for half an hour the tech agreed to give me just a few minutes it took to put in these exact settings.

Now that it did not work, we will have to come back and spend some quality time together, with both of us in the car dialing-in different values until it suits me.

Why does the GT-R stab the clutch repeatedly in 1st but does it in a smooth, linear fashion in Reverse? Is it so that we do not burn it with launches and in stop-start traffic?

[09GTR]

We did the exact settings you gave me: TP: A -2 / B -2, CC: A +2/ B+2.

I didn't have an actual appointment so after waiting for half an hour the tech agreed to give me just a few minutes it took to put in these exact settings.

Now that it did not work, we will have to come back and spend some quality time together, with both of us in the car dialing-in different values until it suits me.

Why does the GT-R stab the clutch repeatedly in 1st but does it in a smooth, linear fashion in Reverse? Is it so that we do not burn it with launches and in stop-start traffic?

GT Ricer, I have experienced exactly the same issue with Willal oil. I have sat in the car with the technician etc, to no avail. I will be going back to the Nissan oil next change if a solution is not forthcoming. The car is not enjoyable to drive like this.

[Martin Donnon]

Guys if you cant get any satisfaction from changing TP settings then we would be more than happy to change you over to WR35TML 'light' formulation transmission fluid that more closely mimics the factory clutch behaviour as a 'no cost' option. Either way we can and will make you happy