Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

hey, did a quick search here, and learnt that people are saying that the fuel air ratio guages you install arnt accurate and are just for show, is this correct? id really like to install one just to make sure my mixtures are fine through the rpm range.

how do you go about installing them? are they wires into the o2 sensor on the dump? any ideas?

ta

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/333545-fuel-air-guage/
Share on other sites

Just for show, they are completely useless without a wideband o2 sensor.

can you explain more about this wideband o2 sensor? is it just a different type of sensor? or is this the probe they shove up your zorst when your on the dyno?

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/333545-fuel-air-guage/#findComment-5406808
Share on other sites

Yes different type of sensor. Narrow band sensors use a very non-linear output, so just uses the outputs of lean (100-200mV) and rich (650-800mV) and has nothing inbetween, so when it calculates the air/fuel ratio it does not have a very broad range and hence will change very steeply. This type of sensor is also temperature dependant, so will change depending on if the engine is warm or cold. So the gauge will tell you that the mixture is stoich and fine, when in actual fact it is bordering on lean and then if something goes wrong your engine will lean out and detonate before the gauge even registers that something is wrong.

Wideband sensors on the other hand have a very linear output of 0-5V, and are not temperature dependant. So they will give a very accurate reading of what your a/f ratios actually are and will warn you well before your engine reaches a dangerous a/f ratio.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/333545-fuel-air-guage/#findComment-5406844
Share on other sites

Yes different type of sensor. Narrow band sensors use a very non-linear output, so just uses the outputs of lean (100-200mV) and rich (650-800mV) and has nothing inbetween, so when it calculates the air/fuel ratio it does not have a very broad range and hence will change very steeply. This type of sensor is also temperature dependant, so will change depending on if the engine is warm or cold. So the gauge will tell you that the mixture is stoich and fine, when in actual fact it is bordering on lean and then if something goes wrong your engine will lean out and detonate before the gauge even registers that something is wrong.

Wideband sensors on the other hand have a very linear output of 0-5V, and are not temperature dependant. So they will give a very accurate reading of what your a/f ratios actually are and will warn you well before your engine reaches a dangerous a/f ratio.

ok so what do these sensors look like? the good ones i mean? are they practical? or are they something only dyno places have?

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/333545-fuel-air-guage/#findComment-5406853
Share on other sites

They are exactly the same as a narrow band gauge, they are a gauge. Wideband just refers to the type of sensor the gauge uses.

A fairly popular brand is AEM: http://www.aemelectronics.com/wideband-air...8af52a2bdk5t456

They are not really practical because they are hugely expensive. They are pretty pointless (read unnecessary) unless you are using it for tuning purposes. So what do you want an a/f gauge for? You may find that an exhaust gas temperature gauge will suit your needs better, as you can use it to 'assume' your a/f ratio and makes for a pretty good general monitoring tool.

Edited by Hanaldo
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/333545-fuel-air-guage/#findComment-5406932
Share on other sites

They are exactly the same as a narrow band gauge, they are a gauge. Wideband just refers to the type of sensor the gauge uses.

A fairly popular brand is AEM: http://www.aemelectronics.com/wideband-air...8af52a2bdk5t456

They are not really practical because they are hugely expensive. They are pretty pointless (read unnecessary) unless you are using it for tuning purposes. So what do you want an a/f gauge for? You may find that an exhaust gas temperature gauge will suit your needs better, as you can use it to 'assume' your a/f ratio and makes for a pretty good general monitoring tool.

ok, i dont need it that bad to pay alot of money for, its just a precaution thing.

(bolt text) how so? how do you go about setting that up?

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/333545-fuel-air-guage/#findComment-5407015
Share on other sites

as above. the narrowband o2 sensor will read anything richer than about 14:1 as rich and anything leaner than about 15:1 as lean. they will read stoich as anything in the middle.

yes people are right when they tell you that the air fuel gauges that hook into your factory o2 sensor aren't accurate. when you floor it it simply goes into the rich section of the gauge, even if the AFR is leaner than what you want (such as 13.5:1 at WOT).

the only thing they are good for is telling you if your o2 sensor is working properly or not.

and they look cool if you like flashy lights like i do, which is why i bought one back before i even knew the first thing about air/fuel ratios. i just wanted it because it had flashy lights. it could've been a gauge to tell me what the air condition was doing and i probably would've bought it at the time, LOL

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/333545-fuel-air-guage/#findComment-5407042
Share on other sites

as above. the narrowband o2 sensor will read anything richer than about 14:1 as rich and anything leaner than about 15:1 as lean. they will read stoich as anything in the middle.

yes people are right when they tell you that the air fuel gauges that hook into your factory o2 sensor aren't accurate. when you floor it it simply goes into the rich section of the gauge, even if the AFR is leaner than what you want (such as 13.5:1 at WOT).

the only thing they are good for is telling you if your o2 sensor is working properly or not.

and they look cool if you like flashy lights like i do, which is why i bought one back before i even knew the first thing about air/fuel ratios. i just wanted it because it had flashy lights. it could've been a gauge to tell me what the air condition was doing and i probably would've bought it at the time, LOL

ha, get one fo yo jazz homes, might even make it faster to!

ok, so what i can do to monitor the a/f rations properly is nothing unless i wanna pay big bucks? that sucks...

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/333545-fuel-air-guage/#findComment-5407058
Share on other sites

Wideband sensors themselves are easily damaged by water/condensation so are impractical for daily use (even the cheaper Bosch one is about $200 to replace), plus you would need to get a hole drilled into the side of an exhaust part (dump or frontpipe) for the sensor to go in, as they get damaged easily when they are mounted from the bottom pointing up.

As for kits locally, just an example: http://www.mmsport.com.au/products/955/NGK...Wideband-Sensor

AEM is UEGO is probably the cheapest of the kits at $250-$300 imported from the US

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/333545-fuel-air-guage/#findComment-5407176
Share on other sites

I wouldn't even bother with it dude, it's not really a practical tool for day to day use.

EGT gauges are pretty good because they are affordable, and once you get to know the 'norm' for your car you can figure out if something is going wrong.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/333545-fuel-air-guage/#findComment-5407446
Share on other sites

ha, get one fo yo jazz homes, might even make it faster to!

ok, so what i can do to monitor the a/f rations properly is nothing unless i wanna pay big bucks? that sucks...

i think you have me mistaken for eps, dumbass

and if you want to monitor your AFR's just stick it on a dyno every 6 months or so. you should notice any issues with it starting to lean out as it won't feel like it normally does (like hanaldo said).

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/333545-fuel-air-guage/#findComment-5408282
Share on other sites

Only useful if you plan to adjust your own mixtures obviously.

My unit cost $250 delivered and is still going strong 8 months later, should last 80,000k's if mounted correctly just like the stock ones.

what unit is that?

yea i think its most practical to just dyno it every now and then...

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/333545-fuel-air-guage/#findComment-5408750
Share on other sites

Not even that man, just get a good ecu and get it tuned by a good tuner. It shouldn't be leaning out unless something is wrong, in which case you will notice and THEN you can take it to a dyno to sort it out. There's no point chucking it on the dyno every so while just to see what the AFR's are doing.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/333545-fuel-air-guage/#findComment-5408787
Share on other sites

clutch - u can have my brand new autometer narrow band a/f gauge for like 40 bucks if you want (its been in a box in my garage for about 4 years now)

i apreaciate it mate, but after reading the above info, they dont look like they work :S

thanks anyway man

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/333545-fuel-air-guage/#findComment-5409250
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • I had 3 counts over the last couple of weeks once where i got stranded at a jdm paint yard booking in some work. 2nd time was moving the car into the drive way for the inspection and the 3rd was during the inspection for the co2 leak test. Fix: 1st, car off for a hour and half disconnected battery 10mins 4th try car started 2nd, 5th try started 3rd, countless time starting disconnected battery dude was under the hood listening to the starting sequence fuel pump ect.   
    • This. As for your options - I suggest remote mounting the Nissan sensor further away on a length of steel tube. That tube to have a loop in it to handle vibration, etc etc. You will need to either put a tee and a bleed fitting near the sensor, or crack the fitting at the sensor to bleed it full of oil when you first set it up, otherwise you won't get the line filled. But this is a small problem. Just needs enough access to get it done.
    • The time is always correct. Only the date is wrong. It currently thinks it is January 19. Tomorrow it will say it is January 20. The date and time are ( should be ! ) retrieved from the GPS navigation system.
    • Buy yourself a set of easy outs. See if they will get a good bite in and unthread it.   Very very lucky the whole sender didn't let go while on the track and cost you a motor!
    • Well GTSBoy, prepare yourself further. I did a track day with 1/2 a day prep on Friday, inpromptu. The good news is that I got home, and didn't drive the car into a wall. Everything seemed mostly okay. The car was even a little faster than it was last time. I also got to get some good datalog data too. I also noticed a tiny bit of knock which was (luckily?) recorded. All I know is the knock sensors got recalibrated.... and are notorious for false knock. So I don't know if they are too sensitive, not sensitive enough... or some other third option. But I reduced timing anyway. It wasn't every pull through the session either. Think along the lines of -1 degree of timing for say, three instances while at the top of 4th in a 20 minute all-hot-lap session. Unfortunately at the end of session 2... I noticed a little oil. I borrowed some jack stands and a jack and took a look under there, but as is often the case, messing around with it kinda half cleaned it up, it was not conclusive where it was coming from. I decided to give it another go and see how it was. The amount of oil was maybe one/two small drops. I did another 20 minute session and car went well, and I was just starting to get into it and not be terrified of driving on track. I pulled over and checked in the pits and saw this: This is where I called it, packed up and went home as I live ~20 min from the track with a VERY VERY CLOSE EYE on Oil Pressure on the way home. The volume wasn't much but you never know. I checked it today when I had my own space/tools/time to find out what was going on, wanted to clean it up, run the car and see if any of the fittings from around the oil filter were causing it. I have like.. 5 fittings there, so I suspected one was (hopefully?) the culprit. It became immediately apparent as soon as I looked around more closely. 795d266d-a034-4b8c-89c9-d83860f5d00a.mp4       This is the R34 GTT oil sender connected via an adapter to an oil cooler block I have installed which runs AN lines to my cooler (and back). There's also an oil temp sensor on top.  Just after that video, I attempted to unthread the sensor to see if it's loose/worn and it disintegrated in my hand. So yes. I am glad I noticed that oil because it would appear that complete and utter catastrophic engine failure was about 1 second of engine runtime away. I did try to drill the fitting out, and only succeeded in drilling the middle hole much larger and now there's a... smooth hole in there with what looks like a damn sleeve still incredibly tight in there. Not really sure how to proceed from here. My options: 1) Find someone who can remove the stuck fitting, and use a steel adapter so it won't fatigue? (Female BSPT for the R34 sender to 1/8NPT male - HARD to find). IF it isn't possible to remove - Buy a new block ($320) and have someone tap a new 1/8NPT in the top of it ($????) and hope the steel adapter works better. 2) Buy a new block and give up on the OEM pressure sender for the dash entirely, and use the supplied 1/8 NPT for the oil temp sender. Having the oil pressure read 0 in the dash with the warning lamp will give me a lot of anxiety driving around. I do have the actual GM sensor/sender working, but it needs OBD2 as a gauge. If I'm datalogging I don't actually have a readout of what the gauge is currently displaying. 3) Other? Find a new location for the OEM sender? Though I don't know of anywhere that will work. I also don't know if a steel adapter is actually functionally smart here. It's clearly leveraged itself through vibration of the motor and snapped in half. This doesn't seem like a setup a smart person would replicate given the weight of the OEM sender. Still pretty happy being lucky for once and seeing this at the absolute last moment before bye bye motor in a big way, even if an adapter is apparently 6 weeks+ delivery and I have no way to free the current stuck/potentially destroyed threads in the current oil block.
×
×
  • Create New...