Engine Pre-Heaters

[Marlin]

.......... well there ya go

[No Crust Racing]

Dane: I wouldn't bother with a road car either, was just saying I've been curious about the concept is all.

You should be able to work out pretty quickly if you need one from your own experiences. How long does the car take to get to operating temp?

[phunky_monkey]

This is why I love you Richard

Just looked them up - cheap as chips. I can use a converter to make it work with 240v and save myself a whole bunch of cash. Radical are replacing my dry sump tank with the latest version as part of my deal, so I'll enquire with them about heaters. Their version is pretty expensive from the UK so not sure why that would be.

Ben: I just found this old thread and people were suggesting the same thing: http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/333790-faster-warm-up-for-a-dry-sumpd-engine-oil-tank-heaters/

I think the external heater will be easiest for me, so I'll do some looking into that.

[phunky_monkey]

Dane: I wouldn't bother with a road car either, was just saying I've been curious about the concept is all.

You should be able to work out pretty quickly if you need one from your own experiences. How long does the car take to get to operating temp?

Not sure yet mate, have never done it myself!

I'll find out soon enough though.

[Beer Baron]

yeah for the cost of buying a dry sump tank with heater (around $200 AUD landed) I would do that and tax the heater off it. they are simple power and ground wire though you may need some kind of controller to cycle it on/off (not sure). most likely all you'd need to do is put a female plug on the two wires and mount it neatly somewhere on the body work. when you want to warm it up just have a 12V battery with the matching male plug on some wire and just plug the battery into the plug on the bodywork. let it run for whatever time is needed and you're done. weight would be bugger all (maybe 500gms max) and it would be easy to use. still not sure if it's [i[really[/i] needed or not though. but it certainly doesn't hurt things. I'd do it.

[Beer Baron]

dane, that one I pictured is on ebay right now for $129 USD. could have it here for well under $200AUD. sell the tank for $100 AUD and you've got a heater sorted for $100.

so does this earn me a drive or what????

link http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NASCAR-ALUMINUM-DRY-SUMP-OIL-TANK-W-HEATERS-PETERSON-/360367863724?pt=Race_Car_Parts&hash=item53e79937ac

[No Crust Racing]

If it's that cheap and that easy and gives you some peace of mind it can't be a bad thing. Reckon it's worth waiting to see if you even need it first or are you just that damn excited already

[No Crust Racing]

Haha, love your work Baron

[phunky_monkey]

dane, that one I pictured is on ebay right now for $129 USD. could have it here for well under $200AUD. sell the tank for $100 AUD and you've got a heater sorted for $100.

so does this earn me a drive or what????

link http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NASCAR-ALUMINUM-DRY-SUMP-OIL-TANK-W-HEATERS-PETERSON-/360367863724?pt=Race_Car_Parts&hash=item53e79937ac

Not sure if the elements on that one will be the right size, so I might hold off until I know for sure what size I require. But thanks!

All it 's going to take for a drive now is a wristie, but you're close!

If it's that cheap and that easy and gives you some peace of mind it can't be a bad thing. Reckon it's worth waiting to see if you even need it first or are you just that damn excited already

I think I'll wait to see if I definitely need it and see what their recommendation is, but sounds promising to me.

[Beer Baron]

hey mang, I'd give you a wristie for fun, but for a drive i gonna stroke it up real nice... (/scarface reference).

yeah, tank size varies a bit, but there is only a few common sizes really. there is a bit of room in the band type ones too for accommodating a tank that is a bit larger or a bit smaller too.

you just need to ask radical what OD the dry sump tank is going to be and then find one that matches. should be a piece of cake.

[No Crust Racing]

ITT: Lolz

[phunky_monkey]

hey mang, I'd give you a wristie for fun, but for a drive i gonna stroke it up real nice... (/scarface reference).

yeah, tank size varies a bit, but there is only a few common sizes really. there is a bit of room in the band type ones too for accommodating a tank that is a bit larger or a bit smaller too.

you just need to ask radical what OD the dry sump tank is going to be and then find one that matches. should be a piece of cake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWupuAj1bio

Agreed, should be easy as pie. I'm loving this solution! I thought the warmer was a good idea but the cost and complexity was a bit of a downer, this should hopefully work out nicely.

[Beer Baron]

lol, I wasn't sure anyone would get the reference if I didn't annotate it.

hey mang, who put this thing together? me! that's who.

[Neil]

....... But of course the option is there to run it off the tow car or jump battery.

I was having a bit of a think about it today and Marlins idea has lots of merit. This is not really just about Radicals,,,it's more about someone running a dry sump. Really if you are running one it's getting towed to events isn't it.

So if you were to run a 12 volt heater system you could use the tow cars power whilst towing to heat the oil up,,,get to the track and bingo a tank full of warm oil.

Which leads me maybe to a stupid question which someone might be able to answer,,,I've always been worried about the initial start-up with a dry system,,,the engine has sat around for a long period and all the oil has drained down to the sump/hoses ect and now you start it up and the pump is pumping tons of air before delivering oil. Shouldn't the pump be primed somehow before actually starting???.

Cheers

Neil.

[N1GTR]

Wouldn't you run a one way valve between the tank and the inlet for the pump so when you turn it off there's some oil stuck in the line waiting for when you crank it next?

[zebra]

Ive heard of cars running an eletric primer pump so stop that issue Neil

[Neil]

Maybe a one way valve is the answer,,,I don't know and yes I've seen pics on SAU of an electric primer pump. I'd like someone who actually runs a dry sump system to spill their guts and tell me whats right and whats wrong.

Think I'll be venturing out to Parramatta speedway and ask those 700hp V8 sideways lunatics guys about it.

Cheers

Neil.

[Risking]

Element heaters in the base of a tapered tank are far better than blanket heaters around the outside. Think about what happens to hot and cold oil.

Cold thick oil always goes to the bottom to be heated evenly till the viscosity is even. A blanket heats the tank and the heat has to radiate to the center through the oil. it does but they are less efficient in heating the oil evenly. I have tested both ways in a tank with no lid. There was some drastic temp differences when using a blunt and a 300mm round tank.

Primers are a good idea particularly when used as an emergency back up as well as a primer. When you wire them to a hob switch and the thing throws a belt the primer can help alot. It won't save an engine doing a million rpm at full noise but you do have a chance with them.

Most sprint car guys I know don't use them. They use a shut off from a hob switch when pressure drops below 20psi. ( they can't idle so pressure is never lower than 44psi usually)

If they sit around or have a fresh engine a drill on the pump is used to prime the system.

I used to drop the belt and use a 3/8 air ratchet with a special adaptor to turn the pulley ( don't drive it by the bolt head in the end of the shaft when the pump loads up with oil pressure the bolt will snap)

Even without valves a dry sump pump won't drain back to the tank when it sits around. They drain back into the sump on the scavenger lines but otherwise the system will remain majoritily primed. The only time I've re primed a system was when some idiot turned the pump backwards with a drill and pumped all the oil back to the tank. Or if the car has been sitting for more than a couple of months just to be safe.

Neil I'm now stocking BDG and morosso pumps too when your ready to get one.

[2pee]

With a GSXR motor to 2C specs, nova replacement pump in the water pump location.......dyno time only.....no problems with prime or drain back into the sump, after sitting for a few weeks. If you made the tank tall and skinny enough, you might get enough head to fill the sump, usual space and positioning limitations of the tank in one of these, it'd be highly unlikely IMHO.

Don't know what's in your cars - Busas I presume - Kevin Leggatt (sp), did develop the scavenge pump for the kawa 1100 original some years back...which might save a few shekels and wouldn't be much of an engineering challenge to adapt I suspect.

[Beer Baron]

neil we never ran priming in the dry sump cars i've been involved with but it does have a heater and did have a low pressure shut off (has overide for starting). when starting the car there is a separate fuel/ign switch. you simply leave those off and crank the engine on the starter (so no fuel or ign happening). oil pressure comes up so fast it's not funny and on the starter the engine is only spinning at a few hundred rpm max (not 1500+ like it would be at cold idle if you just started it and let pressure rise) and of course no combustion is taking place. as the brad said oil doesn't really drain back through the pump and lines when shut off so that's not really a problem. I wouldn't bother with 1 way valves in those lines. just one more thing to add.