Problems with new brand of oil?

[JimX]

I have seen some people in threads that say "Stay away from brand X of oil, I used it and I got problems." I was even tempted to join them, after swapping from Castrol (because I had read too many dodgy things about it) to Motul. When I did this, my exhaust started running really dirty, and I started to get noticable residue in my oil catch can line for the first time. Until then it had been very clean. Then one day I found a lifter had blocked which took a couple of hundred dollars to diagnose at a workshop and fix (repeated engine flushes).

So I thought that this Motul oil was crap, and that I should change to something better. But I had read too many good reports on Motul, so I had to question what happened. I then thought, well what if it was the Castrol that was crap (which I had already read from many sources) and that it was just the Motul was cleaning up the engine which ended up unfortunately blocking my lifter with the crap created by the Castrol.

I spoke to one of the guys at Autobarn Auburn and asked him about Motul (which he said was very good) and told him about my blocked lifter, but that I wasn't sure if I would blame the oil or if it was just cleaning out the old crap. He asked if it was on my first oil change of Motul and I said yes. He then called over his co-worker and said "What happens on the first change of oil to Motul?" and the guy replied "The exhaust gets really dirty as it cleans out the engine." So that basically summed up what happened to me without either of us giving the other guy the story about what happened.

There are people that say you should never change your brand/type of oil. Pick one and stick to it. I am now of the opinion that unless you're sure of your oil's reputation, then you should be changing your oil type.

I would say that it's very possible that if you change oil brands and you experience problems, it's likely that it's not the current oil causing the problems but the stuff you're replacing.

I'm now running Fuchs 5W-50 synthetic. I'll see what happens after a couple of oil changes. I did a full engine flush before changing it, so I think my exhaust and lifters are going to stay a lot healthier at least for the next 5000km.

[51jay]

Why did you change from the Motul??

[JimX]

Because the oil that the workshop used after they did the engine flushes was Fuchs, and I decided to stick with the same brand for awhile. I've only heard good things about Fuchs anyway, like they make many other company's synthetic base, which then often gets diluted down to something cheaper.

But after this experience, I've no qualms about switching to another brand. I'll see how Fuchs goes for at least a couple of oil changes. Now I'm just trying to decide if I should do engine flushes between oil changes, or just see how the detergents in the oil do the job. I don't believe the Motul 100% synths would need any engine flushing at service time, at least not very often, but I'm pretty sure there are other good quality oils in the same boat.

[benm]

I've been using Motul 4100/8100 for the last 30,000km and i'll continue to use it whilst I can buy it locally and for the right price

[Brody]

Which castrol oil were u using? Ive been using Formula-R 5-30w and its been pretty good...?

[JimX]

I was using Castrol Formula R 5W-30 too. I'm not 100% sure it was the Castrol oil either, because I have no idea what the previous owner was using. But what I *do* know, is that the Castrol was not cleaning out the engine if it was the previous oil causing the gunk buildup. In either case, it was a good enough reason to swear off Castrol.

No you probably haven't had a problem with Castrol, same as I didn't, because it's either not cleaning up the gunk in your engine or depositing new gunk in your engine and it may be 20-30k km or more before you notice anything wrong. I doubt the engine is running at peak efficiency with all that crap in the engine.

If you do an engine flush between oil changes you are probably going to be ok with Castrol. But the fact that Castrol Formula R needs the engine flushes to help stop gunk buildup problems makes me want to avoid Castrol full stop. That and other reasons such as its propensity to absorb water and lose viscosity more than better quality oils. Do some research on the web, you'll find that Castrol is a pretty average synthetic at best. They are running on marketing and the famous brand name.

[Brody]

Oh well...back to mobile 1 for me then

It had been running that most of the time, then also the motul (which felt good)....

Ill scout the net for further info on castrol

[knore]

Hey Jim, good thread man

Got a Q:

Ill be getting my oil changed soon (not doing myself cos im getting a few things done)..

I got a full 100,000km service about 2000km ago at gavin woods, but he used the genuine nissan 7.5w35 or whatever.. which isnt synthetic

Basically i want to change to 10w30 Motul Chrono because ive got and am doing some rather big performance upgrades..

I dont know what oil was in the car before gavin woods put in the nissan genuine oil.

I shouldnt have any problems with changing to the motul?

All i know is a dont need any lifter problems! :kick:

[Guest RedLineGTR]

Thanks for the Great info

[JimX]

Anyone considering Motul - I would go for it, but make sure you do a Nulon engine flush before the oil change. Because otherwise the detergents will disolve the gunky bits in your engine and circulate them around until they block something important like a lifter. It may not do any damage but it may ruin your day.

[benm]

make sure you do a Nulon engine flush before the oil change.

What's involved in this 'engine flush' ? Is it just an oil additive (kinda like those octane booster bottle type products?) that you put in before you put the 'new' engine oil in or is it something that a mechanic has to do on a hoist etc?

What are the benefits of doing this engine flush? (I read in another thread end of last year about a 'engine carbon flush' (which can also gain a small amount of power), is this the same as what you are describing?

[siksII]

its an oil additive which you add to your oil before a change, and let the car idle for around 30 mins so it has time to circulate, after which u dump the oil and fill up with new stuff.

i have heard bad things about engine flush, although they so far have not been substantiated, can anyone explain why it could be bad?

rather than using that, an (expensive) alternative is to run new oil through your engine for short periods ie 1500kms then keep changing it till things seem cleaner.

an area where u can see gunk buildup is under the cam covers, remove them and have a look, if they look gunky, you may be able to assume that the car has missed a few oil changes previously

[JimX]

Engine flush isn't as bad as I first thought. It's mostly diesel fuel I think, and shouldn't be much of an issue with fresh oil in the tiny quantities that remain in the engine after draining. I imagine that it would even be similar to the detergents used in most synthetic oils.

I wish I had done engine flushes on previous services, but I don't think they would have been needed if I had used Motul instead of Castrol.

[predator]

I wouldn't have too much qualms about changing oils.. because its already happened probably about 50 times before over in Japan and maybe here. Changing brand/types every change probably isn't a good idea, but just switching now and then is gonna be fine.

I don't think its one of those "nooo, don't EVER do it" because you can't really avoid it occasionally. I'm not even sure what the reason would be either? That the different brands can react with each other to maybe cludge up things?? Like has happened to you, as you've said jimx

[Busky2k]

It was probably the Nulon shit that screwed your engine, not the Motul. That Nulon stuff is just kerosene and loosens all sorts of shit and lets it float around the engine. Hence, probably blocked lifter over time. Never use solvent based flushes in your engine! Never!

The Motul wouldnt have anything to do with a dirty exhaust unless you burned 1L per 1000ks with it in there. If it really cleaned the engine, how would it end up in the exhaust? Motul doesnt contain any more detergents than other oils such as Mobil 1 when looking at oil analysies...

[JimX]

Busky2k, you didn't read what I wrote properly. Where exactly did I say that I did any engine flushes at all before this problem happened? The engine flushes FIXED this problem. Without them I'd still have 1 or 2 collapsed lifters and all sorts of associated problems with it. Can you say no starting for 2 solid minutes of cranking, no power once running, and HORRIBLE valve noises? This is what it came to and I had to get the car towed to the workshop.

I don't understand your reasoning with the Motul oil supposedly having nothing to do with making the exhaust dirty either. Why would it have to burn a litre of oil to make the exhaust dirty? It's the gunky buildup in the engine making the exhaust dirty, not the burning of the fresh oil.

Sorry man, but I'm inclined to believe what the shop guys and the workshop told me in this case rather than you with a statement that doesn't make any sense. And why are you comparing Motul with Mobil anyway? It was Castrol that I was using that supposedly did something wrong whether by contaminating or not cleaning previous contaminants. If you read what I wrote, you'd find that I'm now using Fuchs which is virtually the same as Mobil, so I think I'm probably agreeing with the last bit of your statement of them having equal amounts of detergents.

I'm really not sure what you're getting at, at all.

Edit: Maybe there's a misunderstanding about what I said about my exhaust being "dirty". I couldn't notice any difference in the actual exhaust colour itself, but what happened is I got some faint stains in the catch can lines for the first time, as well as horrible brown stains on my rear bumper over a period of several weeks after the oil change. It was only a very small amount of pollutant coming out, but obviously enough was still circulating in the engine to block a lifter or 2.

[Busky2k]

Sorry JimX I didnt wanna seem so harsh. You suggested using Nulon's Engine Flush to people who would switch over, so I wrongly assumed that you used it too.

I have had very bad experiences with Nulons stuff. One car a lifter became stuck with the stuff. My car, it caused my front and rear seals to start leaking badly, during the flushing period. That was enough for me to say 'goodbye' to junk like that. I'll never use them again. Infact, Wynns one is the only engine flush I know that is not solvent based.

Also what I meant by the fact that your exhaust being dirty, how would it be related to your engine being dirty? The oil would have to carry this junk inside the engine into the combustion chambers, and then out into the exhaust. Thus you have to be burning lots of oil to do this, like 1L/1000ks. There is no other way engine gunk would get into the exhaust. Im suprised really, Motul 8100 is ester based, and burns cleaner than PAO based synths like Mobil 1 and mineral oils.

Also most synthetic oils have very similar detergent levels, and I simply pulled Mobil 1 outta the top of my head as an example. You will find under oil analysis that Motul, Mobil, Castrol, Shell and all the other big players have simliar detergent packages.

My point was, I dont see how you can blame motul for a dirty exhaust? Just remember, a shop guy is there to sell goods. Hell most of them dont even know what an ester is, let alone what the real difference between say, Motul 8100 and 300V. So take the Autobarns story with a grain of salt.

Castrol R range is quite good. They wont cause junk buildup if you keep the oil change intervals around 10k because they are fully synth. Mineral oils will with no hesitations.

Also sorry I didnt read your first post properly about being towed to a workshop. Didnt they actually remove the problem lifters and clean them out, instead of just flushing the engine? The biggest risk with solvent flushes is blocking the oil pickup strain screen. While flushes wont ruin engines, I wouldnt take my chances with them either. They're more of a last resort product IMO. And what kind of residues were in the catch can? If its just oil, np, if its crusty stuff, hrmmm...

Sorry I didnt make myself clear.

[JimX]

My point was, I dont see how you can blame motul for a dirty exhaust? Just remember, a shop guy is there to sell goods. Hell most of them dont even know what an ester is, let alone what the real difference between say, Motul 8100 and 300V. So take the Autobarns story with a grain of salt.

I didn't blame Motul for the blockage. I (and the shop guys) think that it was because Motul was so much "cleaner" with better detergents that it loosened up all the crap that was put in by either Castrol or whatever oil before the Castrol. It was meant to be a good thing to make the exhaust run dirty for the first sump full of Motul, but because I had so much crap in my engine it was obviously too much and it blocked the lifter/s. The proper engine flush was the only thing that could get it unblocked.

Autobarn stock several different products so that the shopper has a choice. They gave me advice based on their own experiences, they said Motul was good in their experience, but they hadn't used Fuchs much but had heard it was also good. Why wouldn't I believe them? They aren't a Motul dealer.

I too am wary of running too much engine flush. Now that this Fuchs oil is in I think I am going to just do straight changes and see how I go. Hopefully the detergent in this stuff is good enough to get by without the engine flush.

[trbo32]

What's the name of that engine flush product that comes in a black box??

It's expensive and supposed to good.

Can’t remember the name of it though!

Anyone know what i'm talking about?? :lol

[EnricoPalazzo]

So should i be doing an oil flush every oil change? I use castrol formula R 5-30w and change every 5k with filter.