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r33 FMIC results, 215rwkw

Guest Robo's

By Guest Robo's,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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Guest Robo's

Guest Robo's

Posted
Posted

Before you guys going ranting and raving about shootmode mode, i just done a quick search and most guys cars on this forum are dynoed in shootout mode.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/at...achmentid=13796

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/at...achmentid=10705

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/at...achmentid=12831

Heres a couple of links to dyno graphs and you will notice these are done in shootout mode too. I think most tuners use shootout mode these days to stop manipulating figures.

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Sydneykid Grand Master

Sydneykid

Posted
Posted

Hi guys, this Dyno Dynamics (DD) Shoot Out Mode (SOM) discussions needs a few facts;

When we put our DD into SOM it automatically corrects for certain things, I will use one as an example, ambient temperature. As you all know ambient temperature affects how much power the car makes, when it is hot the power is down, when it is cold the power is up. DD decided that say 25 degrees was a good all round "normal" temperature. So if the temperature on the day that your car is being dynoed is lower than 25 degrees, then the DD software reduces the power output on the dyno graph. If the temperature is higher than 25 degrees, it increases the power on the dyno graph.

The same applies to humidity and air pressure. So you cannot say that SOM always increases the power graphed, what it does is it "normalises" the results. That way a DD in Tasmania during winter in SOM will show the same power as a DD in Cairns in summer in SOM. This "normalising" is exactly what Nissan and all the other car manufacturers do when they quote a power output for their engines. In fact the din standard used internationally requires this.

The big advantage of SOM, is that all the settings are shown on the bottom of the printout so you can tell if any "cheating" is going on. This removes about 85% of the possible ways an unscrupulous dyno operator can get "cheater" results.

Hope that adds to the thread.

2rismo Grand Master

2rismo

Posted
Posted

Thanks sydneykid. Inasnt, that refers to people being just plain unscrupulous! You may as well stand on the load sensor and say that that's a way to fudge figures. It's obvious and not worth mentioning and doesn't aid the discussion.

All anyone needs to remember is that chassis dyno's are tuning tools. The end.

Adrian

pinoi_boi_r33 Community Regular

pinoi_boi_r33

Posted
Posted

Where are you from mate i'm from frankston and i didn't know there was a dyno in carrum downs? how much does it cost to use? Also have you upgraded ur fuel sys? What boost controller u using? I want a similar result but i will put steel wheels in there, don't trust the ceramic.

awd Newbie

awd

Posted
Posted
Hi guys, this Dyno Dynamics (DD) Shoot Out Mode (SOM) discussions needs a few facts;

When we put our DD into SOM it automatically corrects for certain things, I will use one as an example, ambient temperature.  As you all know ambient temperature affects how much power the car makes, when it is hot the power is down, when it is cold the power is up.   DD decided that say 25 degrees was a good all round "normal" temperature.  So if the temperature on the day that your car is being dynoed is lower than 25 degrees, then the DD software reduces the power output on the dyno graph.  If the temperature is higher than 25 degrees, it increases the power on the dyno graph.

The same applies to humidity and air pressure.  So you cannot say that SOM always increases the power graphed, what it does is it "normalises" the results.  That way a DD in Tasmania during winter in SOM will show the same power as a DD in Cairns in summer in SOM.  This "normalising" is exactly what Nissan and all the other car manufacturers do when they quote a power output for their engines.  In fact the din standard used internationally requires this.

The big advantage of SOM, is that all the settings are shown on the bottom of the printout so you can tell if any "cheating" is going on.  This removes about 85% of the possible ways an unscrupulous dyno operator can get "cheater" results.

Hope that adds to the thread.

You forgot to mention the Intake air probe, this is what can make 20-30 RWKW's difference very easy.

The higher the IT number on your Shootout Graph, the more correction has been applied.

If you want an honest reading, tell the DD owner to leave the yellow Intake probe lead at the dyno cabinet, here it will read Ambient temp, and you are gauranteed a non overly corrected reading.

SLY33 Mentor

SLY33

Posted
Posted

great result!

ahh the old stock turbo debate.

my thoughts are it depends a lot on your cooler. Consider a stock cooler, running 12psi. Tests have confirmed that to get 12psi manifold pressure, the pre-cooler pressure has been over 20psi. So really you are pushing your turbo harder than you think.

Now drop in an efficient front mount that say for eg has no pressure drop. your turbo is working much less to get the same 12psi at the manifold now.

i ran my car at 13psi with the stock cooler for 6months (hard driven!) then ran it at 12psi with a good cooler and ecu making 200rwkw, and never had a problem. I have mates running 1bar with the stock turbo and good FMICs with no problems. Im not saying they wont go, but ive seen many of them pushed very hard and survive. Obviously depends on the turbo's life in japan.

NB, im talking about series one turbos, havent had experience with sII's.

Sorry to get off track of your results, but bottom line i think is that turbo not working as hard as some think with a good cooler :) I am wondering what sydneykid thinks about this just out of curiosity.

riggaP Veteran

riggaP

Posted
Posted

Robo, that result looks impressive. I've got a few questions for ya; What dimensions is the coola? Is it more laggy? Do you think it'll be enough to shave 0.33sec off your current ET ;) ?

My input on dyno issue:

All anyone needs to remember is that chassis dyno's are tuning tools.  The end.

:werd:

My input on the stock turbo issue:

The point is, there is NO hard and fast rule regarding when a std ceramic wheel turbo will fail. Just guidelines.

:werd: Great minds think alike :( For the record I have run 13psi for more than 6 months and have never had a problem.

Guest Robo's

Guest Robo's

Posted
Posted
Robo, that result looks impressive. I've got a few questions for ya; What dimensions is the coola? Is it more laggy? Do you think it'll be enough to shave 0.33sec off your current ET ;) ?

My input on dyno issue:

:werd:

My input on the stock turbo issue:

:werd: Great minds think alike :( For the record I have run 13psi for more than 6 months and have never had a problem.

Rigga.

The intercooler is the same as the Hybrid one, 600*300*75, but just with better piping. I got it from the INTERCOOLERGUY. I cannot notice any difference in lag. Without adjusting the bleed valve, i noticed about 0.5psi increase. Also noticed from the dyno sheets, it was keeping boost better up high. Im still loosing about 1.5psi from midrange to top end, where as the stock one i was loosing say 2psi, so a small saving there.

If i can get the same 60', a 12 is on the cards!!

All in all, i dont care if the dyno figure is sceptical, i still gained 28rwkw from a FMIC and exhaust cam gear. Thats what im happy about and i can feel the difference.

Guest Robo's

Guest Robo's

Posted
Posted

The 215rwkw chart doesnt look too good midrange, slight dip, looks like it had a miss, hence the air/fuel ratio spike. The red line is one of the dynos previously done with the old set-up, only about 170rwkw.

The 209rwkw is nice, but done in 3rd gear, hence the lower figure because of the dog leg in gearbox.

Notice the size difference between the stock cooler and the new one. HUGE :(

Sydneykid Grand Master

Sydneykid

Posted
Posted
You forgot to mention the Intake air probe, this is what can make 20-30 RWKW's difference very easy.

Yep, that's why I said "85% of the possible ways of cheating". There is still 15% left and IT is surely one of them. But at least I can read it on the bottom of the print out, so I can't stop the "cheating" but I sure know about it.

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