Jump to content
SAU Community

How much will this cost me?

benro2

By benro2,
in General Automotive Discussion

 Share

Recommended Posts

benro2 Community Regular

benro2

Posted
Posted

Hi guys,

I'm a newbie here, and I don't actually own a Skyline (yet). However, I've got a number of good questions for you, so thanks in advance!

I'm considering an R33 GTR, and want to get around 500hp (flywheel) out of it. I'm wondering which parts would be the best for this (with some room left for higher outputs for the future), and approximately how much they will cost in total, incl. labour and tuning time? I don't want to lose too much bottom end torque, in other words, it has to be very driveable, and will mostly be used as an "everyday" car, but I anticipate I'll start going to the drags, also do a bit of track work, etc. etc. :) Oh yeah, I want to be able to run the car on 98 octane fuel as well :D

I spotted this video of an R34 GTR by MINE: http://racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=293&p=6

According to someone at the forum, it has 600hp (not sure whether at the flywheel or wheels). Now *that's* what I'm after. Someone on there also mentioned that it uses two 2530's, which I've also seen a few people recommend in here. Although you never really see the car below 4000 rpm, the power band seems to be fairly linear, which is what I'm looking for.

Now this may seem like a stupid question, but as far as I can see, there's no other way of asking it: is the amount of power (and driveability) you get for your money directly proportional, or are there "points" along the way where you may as well spend a relatively small amount for a relatively big gain? I'm asking this because I figured you guys would be able to help me with my 500hp goal. Should I go for 600hp (what I'd really like, but beyond that is a long way off :) ), or is that a lot more money? In other words, is 500hp for a GTR a good "point" or is it better value (in terms of $/kw) to go for, say 550 or 600hp?

In case you're wondering about my budget, well I'm not exactly sure, as I don't have the car yet (figuring around $35K for one with :)

OK then, that's about all I can think of for now,

Ben

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/44649-how-much-will-this-cost-me/
Share on other sites
EVL R33 Experienced

EVL R33

Posted
Posted

Ben,

Depending on the condition of the motor you can run 500hp at the fly all day on stock internals with a good tune. Once you start heading towards 600hp it's rebuild time sooner rather than later which will add around 10k to your bill...

I'm running 2530's, bigger cooler, PFC, 700cc injectors, Z32afm's, twin plate clutch etc and have around 420hp at all 4 wheels on 1.3bar.. You do get used to the power but it is still a seriously fast street car at that level. The 2530's boost up pretty much the same speed as the stockies, but midrange and top end is WAYYYYYY better...

To answer your question regarding money spent v's gains, the first few thousand you spend will net you the biggest jump in power, Ie exhaust, boost, turbs etc.. After that you start spending more on reliability and safeguards (ie bigger injectors, fuel pump etc).. These will allow you to run more boost to get more power but the gains won't be as great as the first couple I mentioned.

If you intend to mod the gtr and run it on 98 octane then some sort of aftermarket management will be required... Lots of different choices, I'd go for one that a local tuner you trust has experience with..

In the end, 500hp is not hard to get out of a gtr with minimal bolt on mods and will be very lively to drive on the street and around a track.. You'd be looking at mid 11's on the strip with around that power too....

Cheers

Brett

benro2 Community Regular

benro2

Posted
  • Author
Posted

OK thanks guys for all the info!

I just had another idea, which again seems pretty stupid, even to me :mad:

What about a triple-turbo GTR? I don't think I'd ever attempt it myself, but rather than buying two new turbos, how about simply adding on a 3rd stock turbo? Assuming you've started with a stock car, would the work required to get this idea working be more than simply buying two bigger turbos? But for the "wow" factor, I like the idea of a triple-turbo! :)

So mesh, how does your car drive? What about the clutch? Is it OK or a bit of a bitch? That's one other thing I forgot to mention - I'd like the clutch to be fairly smooth and progressive if possible, unlike some of these nasty ones I see floating around that are basically "on" or "off" ;) So, if I spend a bit more on tuning, I could possibly get a better bottom end response?

Now this is something totally unrelated: my dad reckons that one of his friend's sons has an older Supra with a hand-controller thing (don't know the name ;) ) which allows him to adjust the ECU, which he apparently picked up for around $80. This guy's a bit of an engineering/mechanic-type guy, and the thing allows you to put some presets in for how you want to drive. He has one for performance, fuel economy, etc. etc. Is this the same as what one of those aftermarket ECU's will do, except it's not pre-tuned? Is it possible to get one of these for the Skyline, and how hard is it to use one? What about getting one pre-tuned by an expert, then messing around with it yourself afterwards to try and improve on it? I know you obviously have to know what you're doing, except I wouldn't mind having a play around with one. My dad's OK with this sort of stuff, so if I ever got into any sort of trouble, I'm sure he'd be able to undo my work ;)

Ben

Edit: oh and BTW, it seems my guess of $10-15K for mods was about right, looking at the linked thread. I think I'd stretch to $16,730 for 320rwkw. BTW, what drivetrain loss is factored in for GTR's?

benro2 Community Regular

benro2

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Nope, didn't think a triple turbo would be easy, as I've seen a triple turbo Supra and the amount of pipework on that was ridiculous. But still, someone's gotta attempt it! :)

Oh yeah, but with that Supra I think the guy still wanted the sequential setup, which would have added a lot of pipework. So with a straight triple-turbo setup, how hard could it be? :jk:

EVL R33 Experienced

EVL R33

Posted
Posted

Ben,

Considering that 3 out of the first 4 responses you got were from guys with Midnight Purple R33 GTR's I think that says a lot about how rare the colour is.. There would be at least another 3 or 4 R33's that colour on the forums, and I would say over 50% of R33 GTR's I see in mags owned in aust. are midnight purple!!!!! ha ha ha

SS8_Gohan Grand Master

SS8_Gohan

Posted
Posted

What i think is very important, and seems to take a bit of a back seat in the modification stakes, are things like suspension/tyres/light weight components/weight saving. If you're after better response and driveability, don't just focus on getting more horsies.

cheers

benro2 Community Regular

benro2

Posted
  • Author
Posted

EVL, since I'm new to these forums, I don't know anyone here, so I didn't know what colour car they owned. Your avatar is sort of ghosted so I can't tell the colour properly, and I can't see any links to pics of your car.

What I meant about rare is that I don't ever recall seeing one on the road. I usually take note of the colour of Skylines as they drive past, and most seem to be silver, black, white or dark red. Oh yeah, blue as well :) Was Midnight Purple a colour specific to the R33 and/or GTR model?

SS8, thanks for the suggestion. I think people go for more horsepower because it looks more impressive on paper. Also, and I'm just guessing here, I would say that decreasing the weight of the car would cost more than increasing the power. I was also planning to do a good suspension/tyres job as well, but that would be on top of the engine mod costs. Trust me, I know the importance of these things, so they certainly weren't taking a back seat to engine mods. However, I do have a better idea of the cost of these, whereas there are so many damn options and combinations with the engine mods that I just wanted to know the most reliable and cheap way to get the power/driveability that I want.

Ben

EVL R33 Experienced

EVL R33

Posted
Posted

Ben, I didn't mean anything nasty by the post, it was more a poke at how many midnight purple GTR's we have on the forums... For a supposedly 'rare' colour there are a lot of them around the place!!!! ha ha ha

It is a factory colour for R33 GTR's, though they did release an anniversary edition GTS25t in the same colour. And R34's have Midnight Purple II and III in their colour range.

Getting back to the point of your thread, I'd suggest going to a couple of SAU cruises and picking peoples brains about what mods worked the best etc. You might even score a ride or three in a couple of 500+hp GTR's to get an idea of just how much fun they are..

Cheers

Brett

meshmesh Mentor

meshmesh

Posted
Posted
What i think is very important, and seems to take a bit of a back seat in the modification stakes, are things like suspension/tyres/light weight components/weight saving. If you're after better response and driveability, don't just focus on getting more horsies.  

cheers

Very good point SS8_Gohan, "something I'd like to do on the next car". And as comparison, the cost to get 260-280kw at the wheels from a GTR is minimal, exhausts, computer and some boost. probaly $2500-3000.

The next stage, like what I have done will get you 310-340kw at the wheels and wil cost an extra $11-14,000K. Some might say why only an extra 40+KW? which doesn't really explain the power benefits, because the power gain is everywhere in RPM range and not just the top end.

In hindsight, you could save the $11-14,000K, and spend it on weight reduction/suspension. I think with that sort of money you should easily loose 200-300kg, by replacing stock panels with carbon fibre.

I spoke to someone who plans on doing a similar project with an R32 GTR, who got a quote from that carbon mob in sydney/or queensland "forget exactly" to replace the bonnet, front bumper, front guards, rear boot, and door with carbon fibre for around $7-8K. The beauty is you can paint them to look stock... just not sure about safety & ADR.

lwells Grand Master

lwells

Posted
Posted

This thread has a lot of good information on the Mines Response R34 and the kind of mods that will make you car more responsive:

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...ead.php?t=33247

You can find a complete rundown on the parts in the Mines car at their website although the sum of the parts does not equal a responsive car: so much of it has to do with the magic tuning :)

http://www.mines-wave.com/Demo-Car/R34gtr/index.html

meshmesh: that carbon mob was probably Custom Carbon -- http://www.customcarbon.com.au/default.html

I think you would have a heard time with the ADRs if you replaced the doors... What I want is a carbon fibre prop shaft.

Lucien.

meshmesh Mentor

meshmesh

Posted
Posted

thanks lucien,

I have a picture of the mines R34N1 where my wedding photo should be :) :).

We concluded a number of thing from those threads... It's unlikely MINES would fully disclose the actual parts/mods list. One thing where are led to believe is that the R34 uses R33 GTR Diffs for the lower gearing coupled to the 6speed box, which enhance's it's response. Only by watching the vid is it possible to explain how unbeliebably "FAAAST" the Mines car revs through the range.

Yep, there the guys... Custom Carbon -- http://www.customcarbon.com.au/default.html

lwells Grand Master

lwells

Posted
Posted

Yeah, I am sure even if you copied exactly what is listed on the Mines website (or listed in the BMI video) it wouldn't be as responsive as their car, but that's no reason not to try because you would still end up with a damn responsive car IMHO.

LW.

Merli Grand Master

Merli

Posted
Posted
Ben,

Considering that 3 out of the first 4 responses you got were from guys with Midnight Purple R33 GTR's I think that says a lot about how rare the colour is..   There would be at least another 3 or 4 R33's that colour on the forums,  and I would say over 50% of R33 GTR's I see in mags owned in aust. are midnight purple!!!!!  ha ha ha

I know of TWO Midnight Purple GTRs in NSW.

Just because they're like whores in Melbourne, doesn't mean that they're common in the big picture :) It's a fact that there were a LOT less Midnight Purple GTRs made than say Silver, White and Black ones.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • MBS206
      Mistakes were made, my R34 Story

      By MBS206 · Posted

      All I hear is ROADTRIP!
    • sunsetR33
      Unpeeling the Orange

      By sunsetR33 · Posted

      Update 3: Hi all It's been a while. Quite a lot of things happened in the meantime, among other things the car is (almost) back together and ready to be started again. Things that I fixed or changed: Full turbo removal, fitting back the OEM turbo oil hardlines. Had to do quite a bit of research and parts shopping to get every last piece that I need and make it work with the GT2860 turbos, but it does work and is not hard to do. Proves that the previous owner(s) just did not want to. While I was there I set the preload for the wastegates to 0,9bar to hopefully make it easier for the tuner to hit the 370hp I need for the legal inspections that will follow later on. Boost can always go up if necessary. Fitted a AN10 line from the catch can to the intake hose to make the catchcan and hopefully the cam covers a slight vacuum to have less restrictive oil returns from the head and not have mud build up as harshly in the lines and catch can. Removed the entire front interior just shy of the dashboard itself to clean up some of the absolutely horrendous wiring, (hopefully) fix the bumpy tacho and put in LED bulbs while I was there. Also put in bulbs where there was none before, like the airbag one. I also used that chance to remove the LED rpm gauge on the steering column, which was also wired in absolute horror show fashion. Moved the 4in1 Prosport gauge from sitting in front of the OEM oil pressure gauge to the center console vents, I used a 3D printed vent piece to hold that gauge there. The HKB steering wheel boss was likely on incorrectly as I sometimes noticed the indicator reset being uneven for left vs. right. In the meantime also installed an airbag delete resistor, as one should. Installed Cube Speed premium short shifter. Feels pretty nice, hope it'll work great too when I actually get to drive. Also put on a fancy Dragon Ball shift knob, cause why not. My buddy was kind enough to weld the rust hole in the back, it was basically rusted through in the lowermost corner of the passenger side trunk area where the wheel arch, trunk panel and rear quarter all meet. Obviously there is still a lot of crustiness in various areas but as long as it's not rusted out I'll just treat and isolate the corrosion and pretend it's not there. Also had to put down a new ground wire for the rear subframe as the original one was BARELY there. Probably a bit controversial depending on who you ask about this... but I ended up just covering the crack in the side of the engine block, the one above the oil feed, with JB Weld. I used a generous amount and roughed up the whole area with a Dremel before, so I hope this will hold the coolant where it should be for the foreseeable future. Did a cam cover gasket job as the half moons were a bit leaky, and there too one could see the people who worked on this car before me were absolute tools. The same half moons were probably used like 3 times without even cleaning the old RTV off. Dremeled out the inside of the flange where the turbine housing mates onto the exhaust manifolds so the diameter matches, as the OEM exhaust manifolds are even narrower than the turbine housings as we all know. Even if this doesn't do much, I had them out anyways, so can't harm. Ideally one would port-match both the turbo and the manifold to the gasket size but I really didn't feel up to disassembling the turbine housings. Wrapped turbo outlet dumps in heat wrap band. Will do the frontpipe again as well as now the oil leak which promted me to tear apart half the engine in the first place is hopefully fixed. Fitted an ATI super damper to get rid of the worn old harmonic balancer. Surely one of the easiest and most worth to do mods. But torquing that ARP bolt to spec was a bitch without being able to lock the flywheel. Did some minor adjustments in the ECU tables to change some things I didn't like, like the launch control that was ALWAYS active. Treated rusty spots and surface corrosion on places I could get to and on many spots under the car, not pretty or ideal but good enough for now. Removed the N1 rear spats and the carbon surrounding for the tailpipe to put them back on with new adhesive as the old one was lifting in many spots, not pretty. Took out the passenger rear lamp housing... what do you know. Amateur work screwed me again here as they were glued in hard and removing it took a lot of force, so I broke one of the housing bolts off. And when removing the adhesive from the chassis the paint came right off too. Thankfully all the damaged area won't be visible later, but whoever did the very limited bodywork on this car needs to have their limbs chopped off piece by piece.   Quite a list if I do say so myself, but a lot of time was spent just discovering new shit that is wrong with the car and finding a solution or parts to fix it. My last problem that I now have the headache of dealing with is that the exhaust studs on the turbo outlets are M10x1.25 threaded, but the previous owner already put on regular M10 nuts so the threads are... weird. I only found this out the hard way. So now I will just try if I can in any way fit the front pipe regardless, if not I'll have to redo the studs with the turbos installed. Lesson learned for the future: Redo ALL studs you put your hands on, especially if they are old and the previous owners were inept maniacs. Thanks for reading if you did, will update when the engine runs again. Hope nothing breaks or leaks and I can do a test drive.
    • Kapr
      What brakes on R34 GTT(Europe)

      By Kapr · Posted

      No those pads are DBA too  but they have colors too. I look at the and imo the green "street" are the best.
    • wizlb
      Who has a Infiniti Q60, Q50 (V37)?

      By wizlb · Posted

      I’m not sure what happened I told them about sonic tunes free OTS tune and the next the I know .. I was booted..   To funny 
    • Kinkstaah
      Starting again

      By Kinkstaah · Posted

      Yea - I mean I've seen my fuel pump which is decades old and uh, while I'm not saying this with real knowledge... but I sure get the ick at using anything in the fuel system that produced the state of that pump. Many years ago I went through multiple pumps (and strainers) before I dropped the tank to clean it out with extreme violence. I'm talking the car would do maybe 50km before coming to a halt, which resulted in me cleaning out the filter with some brake cleaner and going on my way. None of my stuff ever looked like what came out of your fuel tank. I don't think I'd be happy with it unless every single component was replaced (or at least checked/cleaned/confirmed to be clean here).
×
×
  • Create New...