Jump to content
SAU Community

Engineering with Aftermarket ECU

vlv00m

By vlv00m,
in Engines & Forced Induction

 Share

Recommended Posts

vlv00m Apprentice

vlv00m

Posted
Posted

I'm pretty sure that you are unable to get your car engineered with an After Market ECU. (eg. Haltech, Wolf 3D, Microtech)

So how to people go about passing the engineer with the After Market ECU ?

I heard that you can get your aftermarket ECU tested for emissions, allowing you to pass it in engineering, but apparently this is very very expensive ($4,000)

I was thinking maybe to hide the After Market ECU somewhere else in the car, and go get the car engineered. Leaving the standard ECU in the foot well. And see if I get the car passed. Has anyone tried this ? did it work ?

If I can't get it passed. My Next question, do you think I will be able to start my car with the standard ECU with most of the sensors removed ?

As I'm in the process of putting a RB25 NEO into my VL, all the wiring hidden, and most of sensors will be removed, like the transaction control throttle body, boost control, knock sensor. It will still have the oil sensors, water temp, MAF sensor, OS sensor, just the bare basic's

Sorry about the long Thread, Thanks in advance

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/51121-engineering-with-aftermarket-ecu/
Share on other sites
Sydneykid Grand Master

Sydneykid

Posted
Posted

I don't think they have an emmissions test cell in the Act. So I suspect that all they will do for an engine swap inspection is check the numbers and make sure that nothing is stolen. Since you are putting a much "cleaner" current generation 2.5 litre engine in car that came with a 1986 "dirtier" 3 litre engine, I don't think there will be a problem.

Best answer, ask the inspectors what they will be checking.

browny Proficient

browny

Posted
Posted

Talk to a signatory or the relevant inspector that passes this sort of thing.

I have heard various theories about engineering ECU's but i'm not going to repeat any because it's all heresay and therefore may be misleading.

In any case my recommendation is that you don't play swapsies to get through engineering. Personally I can't see why anyone would ever do this. If you are going to go to the effort and cost of having something engineered, you might as well get all the mods signed off then and there so its all above board and you minimise the risk of problems later on (eg insurance or defects). Otherwise my view is that you are leaving yourself open to be liable because the car you are driving is effectively not road legal.

HKS34R Collaborator

HKS34R

Posted
Posted

I will be speaking to an engineer later this afternoon about getting my engine swap engineered and will ask him then. I have had an emissions test done on my last car before it was engineered, and the rta dude said that it would be fine once I get the car to pass the emissions test. However without the car actually passing an emissions test before I sold it, I can't confirm this.

However, would an engineer check for an aftermarket computer?? I have had my R34 fully engineered in the past and the engineer didn't even consider it!

Sydneykid Grand Master

Sydneykid

Posted
Posted
I have recieved feedback from a Engineer in NSW, saying that they wont pass a aftermarket ECU.

I will contact some Engineer's in ACT and check with them

It's going in a VL Commondoor, so the "standard" VL ECU won't work. It's an RB25DET NEO engine, they were never emmisions tested here as they weren't sold here. So what isn't an "aftermarket" ECU in this case? The VL ECU is "aftermarket" to the engine and the RB25DET ECU is "aftermarket" to the VL.

So you have to ask the question of the engineer correctly, don't ask "is an aftermarket ECU OK?" Ask "which of the two ECU's do you suggest?" Since neither will work, then he has to say aftermarket is OK as long as it passes the emmmisions test.

Whether or not it passes the emmisions test is the real question, it shouldn't matter how you get there. :D

browny Proficient

browny

Posted
Posted
It's going in a VL Commondoor, so the "standard" VL ECU won't work. It's an RB25DET NEO engine, they were never emmisions tested here as they weren't sold here. So what isn't an "aftermarket" ECU in this case? The VL ECU is "aftermarket" to the engine and the RB25DET ECU is "aftermarket" to the VL.

The ECU is considered to be part of the engine, as is the exhaust, intake tract, fuel tank and any pollution devices. So the "standard" ECU is the one that comes with the engine from the factory.

Whether or not it passes the emmisions test is the real question, it shouldn't matter how you get there.

I agree but in reality it depends on the engineer and how they interpret the ADR's. I have heard the arguement that the adjustable nature of an aftermarket ECU means some engineers will never allow one to be passed because of the way they read the rules.

INASNT Grand Master

INASNT

Posted
Posted
If he knows it's there he should be interested because the ECU impacts on emissions.

But an aftermarket ecu also tuned properly can pass emmision tests.

But i see your point as the tune can be easily altered after passing the test. So how does the engineering report cover this issue?

Sydneykid Grand Master

Sydneykid

Posted
Posted
The ECU is considered to be part of the engine, as is the exhaust, intake tract, fuel tank and any pollution devices. So the "standard" ECU is the one that comes with the engine from the factory.

I agree but in reality it depends on the engineer and how they interpret the ADR's. I have heard the arguement that the adjustable nature of an aftermarket ECU means some engineers will never allow one to be passed because of the way they read the rules.

What if the RB25DET he is using is from an auto, then he can't use the "standard ECU". VL ECU's are tunable anyway, so if he could use one of those he would be able to tune it just like any aftermarket ECU. Even LS1 ECU's are tunable these days (via LS1 EDIT) , does that mean you can't engineer a Commondoor with a standard one of those?

You are right, it unltimately depends on the engineer. But it also depends on how you approach the problem with them as well. :D

Sydneykid Grand Master

Sydneykid

Posted
Posted
But an aftermarket ecu also tuned properly can pass emmision tests.  

But i see your point as the tune can be easily altered after passing the test. So how does the engineering report cover this issue?

The engineering report is done as at the time the car was presented. It is exactly the same as turning up with standard wheels and then swapping then over later. When he checked it, it passed that's why the engineeering report is timed and dated. :D

Sydneykid Grand Master

Sydneykid

Posted
Posted
So an engineers report is basically the same as a bodgy roadworthy!! :D

Well no, it is a little more detailed and requires considerably more knowledge and testing. But what else can the poor engineer be expected to do, follow you around and make sure you don't change anything? :headspin:

browny Proficient

browny

Posted
Posted

Disclaimer: I am just arguing here because i'm an engineer and I like to argue. What i'm actually saying might be completely incorrect.

What if the RB25DET he is using is from an auto, then he can't use the "standard ECU". VL ECU's are tunable anyway, so if he could use one of those he would be able to tune it just like any aftermarket ECU. Even LS1 ECU's are tunable these days (via LS1 EDIT) , does that mean you can't engineer a Commondoor with a standard one of those?

If I was a signatory I would argue thus...

If the RB25 he is using is an auto he needs to use the auto ECU. If he wants to use a manual he needs to use a manual ECU. Otherwise he could prove the auto and manual maps are identical and use either.

I would argue that it is not only the physical box that constitutes an ECU but also the factory maps. Therefore if you change the maps from factory, you are no longer emissions compliant until you prove otherwise.

I don't know anything about modern commodores, is LS1 EDIT released, supported and endorsed by Holden?

I will contact my local engineer to get another perspective.

discopotato03 Grand Master

discopotato03

Posted
Posted

SK do they have a prob with RB30DET's not being a factory option ? Most are probably not aware if it looks factory and evaprative , breather etc ancilliaries are connected and working . I doubt many engineers would witness the computer , if you tell them its factory that's what the report will state .

Cheers A .

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • RP1421
      S15 Spec R

      By RP1421 · Posted

      As discussed in the previous post, the bushes in the 110 needed replacing. I took this opportunity to replace the castor bushes, the front lower control arm, lower the car and get the alignment dialled in with new tyres. I took it down to Alignment Motorsports on the GC to get this work done and also get more out of the Shockworks as I felt like I wasn't getting the full use out of them.  To cut a very long story short, it ended up being the case the passenger side castor arm wouldn't accept the brand new bush as the sleeve had worn badly enough to the point you could push the new bush in by hand and completely through. Trying a pair of TRD bushes didn't fix the issue either (I had originally gone with Hardrace bushes). We needed to urgently source another castor arm, and thankfully this was sourced and the guys at the shop worked on my car until 7pm on a Saturday to get everything done. The car rides a lot nicer now with the suspension dialled in properly. Lowered the car a little as well to suit the lower profile front tyres, and just bring the car down generally. Eternally thankful for the guys down at the shop to get the car sorted, we both pulled big favours from our contacts to get it done on the Saturday.  Also plugged in the new Stedi foglights into the S15, and even from a quick test in the garage I'm keen to see how they look out on the road. I had some concerns about the length of the LED body and whether it'd fit in the foglight housing but it's fine.  I've got a small window coming up next month where I'll likely get a little paint work done on the 110 to remove the rear wing, add a boot wing and roof wing, get the side skirt fixed up and colour match the little panel on the tail lights so that I can install some badges that I've kept in storage. I'm also tempted to put in a new pair of headlights on the 110.  Until then, here's some more pictures from Easter this year. 
    • joshuaho96
      R32 GTS (RB20DE) Injectors Replacement

      By joshuaho96 · Posted

      I would put a fuel pressure gauge between the filter and the fuel rail, see if it's maintaining good fuel pressure at idle going up to the point when it stalls. Do you see any strange behavior in commanded fuel leading up to the point when it stalls? You might have to start going through the service manual and doing a long list of sensor tests if it's not the fuel system for whatever reason.
    • perry_r33
      R34 GTR Vspec Garage Sale - All must go!

      By perry_r33 · Posted

      Pm sent 
    • Robot
      Skyline v36 350GT sedan hunting on idle

      By Robot · Posted

      Hi,  Just joined the forum so I could share my "fix" of this problem. Might be of use to someone. Had the same hunting at idle issue on my V36 with VQ35HR engine after swapping the engine because the original one got overheated.  While changing the engine I made the mistake of cleaning the throttle bodies and tried all the tricks i could find to do a throttle relearn with no luck. Gave in and took it to a shop and they couldn't sort it. Then took it to my local Nissan dealership and they couldn't get it to idle properly. They said I'd need to replace the throttle bodies and the ecu probably costing more than the car is worth. So I had the idea of replacing the carbon I cleaned out with a thin layer of super glue and it's back to normal idle now. Bit rough but saved the car from the wreckers 🤣
    • GabsReDeal
      R32 GTS (RB20DE) Injectors Replacement

      By GabsReDeal · Posted

      After my last update, I went ahead with cleaning and restoring the entire fuel system. This included removing the tank and cleaning it with the Beyond Balistics solution, power washing it multiple times, drying it thoroughly, rinsing with IPA, drying again with heat gun and compressed air. Also, cleaning out the lines, fuel rail, and replacing the fuel pump with an OEM-style one. During the cleaning process, I replaced several hoses - including the breather hose on the fuel tank, which turned out to be the cause of the earlier fuel leak. This is what the old fuel filter looked like: Fuel tank before cleaning: Dirty Fuel Tank.mp4   Fuel tank after cleaning (some staining remains): Clean Fuel Tank.mp4 Both the OEM 270cc and new DeatschWerks 550cc injectors were cleaned professionally by a shop. Before reassembling everything, I tested the fuel flow by running the pump output into a container at the fuel filter location - flow looked good. I then fitted the new fuel filter and reassembled the rest of the system. Fuel Flow Test.mp4 Test 1 - 550cc injectors Ran the new fuel pump with its supplied diagonal strainer (different from OEM’s flat strainer) and my 550cc injectors using the same resized-injector map I had successfully used before. At first, it idled roughly and stalled when I applied throttle. Checked the spark plugs and found that they were fouled with carbon (likely from the earlier overly rich running when the injectors were clogged). After cleaning the plugs, the car started fine. However, it would only idle for 30–60 seconds before stalling, and while driving it would feel like a “fuel cut” after a few seconds - though it wouldn’t fully stall. Test 2 – Strainer swap Suspecting the diagonal strainer might not be reaching the tank bottom, I swapped it for the original flat strainer and filled the tank with ~45L of fuel. The issue persisted exactly the same. Test 3 – OEM injectors To eliminate tuning variables, I reinstalled the OEM 270cc injectors and reverted to the original map. Cleaned the spark plugs again just in-case. The stalling and “fuel cut” still remained.   At this stage, I suspect an intermittent power or connection fault at the fuel pump hanger, caused during the cleaning process. This has led me to look into getting Frenchy’s fuel hanger and replacing the unit entirely. TL;DR: Cleaned and restored the fuel system (tank, lines, rail, pump). Tested 550cc injectors with the same resized-injector map as before, but the car stalls at idle and experiences what feels like “fuel cut” after a few seconds of driving. Swapped back to OEM injectors with original map to rule out tuning, but the issue persists. Now suspecting an intermittent power or connection fault at the fuel pump hanger, possibly cause by the cleaning process.  
×
×
  • Create New...