Jump to content
SAU Community

Airbox Vs Pod

Jim

By Jim,
in Engines & Forced Induction

 Share

Recommended Posts

gtst25 Proficient

gtst25

Posted
Posted (edited)
so the HKS GTR only has the pods to make them sounds good?

and those 9s GTRs also, no performance increase from pods?

They probably found it easier to fit their upgraded turbo kits with pods instead of the airbox + the pods look and sound cool

Edited by gtst25
  • Replies 72
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Cubes Grand Master

Cubes

Posted
Posted
but with the forward acceleration of the car colder air from infront of the car should go into the pod

A car is designed so that there is a low pressure area behind the radiator (the engine bay). This allows the great majority of the air to pass through the radiator and cool the coolant. In the process this air heats up. This is the air that is sucked in by the pods.

This is also why stock air box's have their snorkle fitted up tightly behind the front head light. If they were to just sit it there it would be of no use as the air from the radiator will contaminate it.

Wheezy Mentor

Wheezy

Posted
Posted
A car is designed so that there is a low pressure area behind the radiator (the engine bay). This allows the great majority of the air to pass through the radiator and cool the coolant. In the process this air heats up. This is the air that is sucked in by the pods.

This is also why stock air box's have their snorkle fitted up tightly behind the front head light. If they were to just sit it there it would be of no use as the air from the radiator will contaminate it.

Valid point, but is the pod in that low pressure area "behind the rad"?

Im not saying your wrong but thinking about it I doubt that the air will get all that much kinetic energy transfered to it to keep the same momentum as the car (thus the pod) to allow a majority of it to be sucked in my the pod.

Sure the turbo will create a great amount of suction, but by the time it effects the area where the heated air that cooled down the rad is most of that air should be on its way out of the engine bay or be hit against the engine and bounce elsewhere, some to the pod and most of it elsewhere in the bay...

Eitherway I still am a air box fan, and believe even with a pod mostly cold air will be sucked in.

At the end of the day there is an intercooler to cool the intake air, and if it is a 30+ degree say its just stupid to use drive any performance car (especially turbo) at its full potential, but I think the pod sucking in hot air, however little amount of air that is, is insignificant on a effectivley intercooled intake system...

-Jez

Race_Bred Enthusiast

Race_Bred

Posted
Posted
Valid point, but is the pod in that low pressure area "behind the rad"?

Im not saying your wrong but thinking about it I doubt that the air will get all that much kinetic energy transfered to it to keep the same momentum as the car (thus the pod) to allow a majority of it to be sucked in my the pod.

Sure the turbo will create a great amount of suction, but by the time it effects the area where the heated air that cooled down the rad is most of that air should be on its way out of the engine bay or be hit against the engine and bounce elsewhere, some to the pod and most of it elsewhere in the bay...

Eitherway I still am a air box fan, and believe even with a pod mostly cold air will be sucked in.

At the end of the day there is an intercooler to cool the intake air, and if it is a 30+ degree say its just stupid to use drive any performance car (especially turbo) at its full potential, but I think the pod sucking in hot air, however little amount of air that is, is insignificant on a effectivley intercooled intake system...

-Jez

There is no cold air in an engine bay, its damn scorching under there, anyhow i used to have my pod unshielded right up kissing the passenger headlight and it was terrible, performance was always up and down, so moved it into the bumper bar, and power is now much more reliable, at night its spectacular, i have a just jap front mount so cant use standard air box

GTRgeoff Grand Master

GTRgeoff

Posted
Posted
So your saying that the WHOLE engine bay is a low pressure area...

So where do you think the hot air from the radiator goes? The air is sucked out the bottom after swirling all through the engine bay. Admittedly there is a small amount of air coming around the headlight, and a clever guy will fit a snorkel into the front bar to use a spare hole to force some cold air in but without a really well constructed chamber there wil be heaps of hot air sucked in. Calculate 2.5L running at 6000rpm + 14psi of forced induction (so double the previous number) and then calculate the number of engine bays at around 300L that is sucking through each minute. Start to get the idea?

It's not uncommon for ambient temps in the street car engine bay to get to over 70degC and when an exhaust is glowing dull red that is about 700degC.

On my track 25t I measured post turbo temps of over 75deg off an enclosed pod with a highflow running 14psi and 220rwkw. After the Hybrid Monster 800hp FMIC it had dropped to 28 deg on a 27deg day. Imagine if it had been sucking 70deg air in.

On the GTR33 the airbox has an extra inlet through the side of the bay inside the guard so it will run extra power, but I'm currently working on a simple mod for the GTS25t airbox to take in extra air through the top with a snorkel to draw what cool air can be had.

Spook's_Skyline Mentor

Spook's_Skyline

Posted
Posted

i used to run my pod down in the front bar, never had any issues, cept the pod got dirty quicker

certainly never had any issues with airflow at speed (that i noticed anyway)

now have pod back in engine bay, sealed off nicely

i believe the sucky sucky noises give me an extra 20rwkw (in my mind)

khunjeng Veteran

khunjeng

Posted
Posted
So where do you think the hot air from the radiator goes? The air is sucked out the bottom after swirling all through the engine bay. Admittedly there is a small amount of air coming around the headlight, and a clever guy will fit a snorkel into the front bar to use a spare hole to force some cold air in but without a really well constructed chamber there wil be heaps of hot air sucked in. Calculate 2.5L running at 6000rpm + 14psi of forced induction (so double the previous number) and then calculate the number of engine bays at around 300L that is sucking through each minute. Start to get the idea?

It's not uncommon for ambient temps in the street car engine bay to get to over 70degC and when an exhaust is glowing dull red that is about 700degC.

On my track 25t I measured post turbo temps of over 75deg off an enclosed pod with a highflow running 14psi and 220rwkw. After the Hybrid Monster 800hp FMIC it had dropped to 28 deg on a 27deg day. Imagine if it had been sucking 70deg air in.

On the GTR33 the airbox has an extra inlet through the side of the bay inside the guard so it will run extra power, but I'm currently working on a simple mod for the GTS25t airbox to take in extra air through the top with a snorkel to draw what cool air can be had.

I'II show u mine geoff in in a few days if I get the chance. I have mocked up a new snorkel to replace the stock one...the inlet will be much wider, nearly to the radiator cap. in addition the snorkle itself will be bigger to add some volume to the intake side. I was gonna make a new lid, but decided this was enough at this stage to keep it looking stock. But I new lid would be good also.

Wheezy Mentor

Wheezy

Posted
Posted
You don't believe so?

Compared to the air pressure on the nose of the car yes... the whole engine bay has a lower pressure.

I totally agree theres a significantly lower pressure compared to the nose of the car. Hence my theory on its momentum. My tired thoughts have been misconstrued. So never mind about me.

So where do you think the hot air from the radiator goes? The air is sucked out the bottom after swirling all through the engine bay. Admittedly there is a small amount of air coming around the headlight, and a clever guy will fit a snorkel into the front bar to use a spare hole to force some cold air in but without a really well constructed chamber there wil be heaps of hot air sucked in. Calculate 2.5L running at 6000rpm + 14psi of forced induction (so double the previous number) and then calculate the number of engine bays at around 300L that is sucking through each minute. Start to get the idea?

It's not uncommon for ambient temps in the street car engine bay to get to over 70degC and when an exhaust is glowing dull red that is about 700degC.

On my track 25t I measured post turbo temps of over 75deg off an enclosed pod with a highflow running 14psi and 220rwkw. After the Hybrid Monster 800hp FMIC it had dropped to 28 deg on a 27deg day. Imagine if it had been sucking 70deg air in.

On the GTR33 the airbox has an extra inlet through the side of the bay inside the guard so it will run extra power, but I'm currently working on a simple mod for the GTS25t airbox to take in extra air through the top with a snorkel to draw what cool air can be had.

Totally agree, running a good source of cold air will help, but as youve mentioned a good FMIC as I also mentioned will make more of a difference in the end.

Ne hoo...Looks like Ive had my ass handed to me.....so Ill shut up now.

GTRgeoff Grand Master

GTRgeoff

Posted
Posted

Nah, you had some good thoughts there. They just needed to be followed through a bit more and the links would have made you see what happens so well done on that. Certainly not about handing anyone ass or any other piece of anatomy.

A good sized FMIC will make a difference but needs help. I remember my stock side mount on 12psi was seeing over 60degC on a 29deg day but I could get that down to 34 with the IC water spray on. As they say: "you can't polish a turd". :)

Wheezy Mentor

Wheezy

Posted
Posted

Like I said, 130am ramblings......ne hoo, Im thinking about getting some temp senders under the bonnet when my cars done and on the track, see whats happening under there, cous If I can fit the R32 airbox like I had perviously in my R31 with the new turbo and pipe work then I will, if not I have to settle for a pod :O

khunjeng Veteran

khunjeng

Posted
Posted

just for every1s info.

I ran more power up today and had an issue with the stock rubber intake hose from the airbox to the turbo. Essnetially under hi load the rubber would collapse...obviously the air box was restricting this too much.

I replaced the box with a pod for the run which sorted the issue.

So essentially what I deduced was the stock air box and snorkel simply couldn't supply enough air over 1bar or around 250rwkw. This is with a trust hi-flow pannel filter.

Pod filter...no dramas at all. Hmm...I could replace the rubber with a al intake pipe to force suction. I think a new lid or ported stock box and bigger snorkels is in order.

So there u go.

skylinecouple Experienced

skylinecouple

Posted
Posted

Actually,on the subject of the inlet hose,has anyone tried cable ties every 50mm around it?I think just by doing that it feels just a little harder to squash.Havn`t had any issues since.

BAMR33 Mentor

BAMR33

Posted
Posted
just for every1s info.

I ran more power up today and had an issue with the stock rubber intake hose from the airbox to the turbo. Essnetially under hi load the rubber would collapse...obviously the air box was restricting this too much.

I replaced the box with a pod for the run which sorted the issue.

So essentially what I deduced was the stock air box and snorkel simply couldn't supply enough air over 1bar or around 250rwkw. This is with a trust hi-flow pannel filter.

Pod filter...no dramas at all. Hmm...I could replace the rubber with a al intake pipe to force suction. I think a new lid or ported stock box and bigger snorkels is in order.

So there u go.

Never thought of it that way, but did it make any less power with standard box in place?

Cubes Grand Master

Cubes

Posted
Posted
just for every1s info.

I ran more power up today and had an issue with the stock rubber intake hose from the airbox to the turbo. Essnetially under hi load the rubber would collapse...obviously the air box was restricting this too much.

I replaced the box with a pod for the run which sorted the issue.

So essentially what I deduced was the stock air box and snorkel simply couldn't supply enough air over 1bar or around 250rwkw. This is with a trust hi-flow pannel filter.

Pod filter...no dramas at all. Hmm...I could replace the rubber with a al intake pipe to force suction. I think a new lid or ported stock box and bigger snorkels is in order.

So there u go.

Now what would be nice to see is how much power less (if any) it would make if you were to leave the stock air box and replace the afm -> turbo pipe.

OR.. If you were to open up the std box and feed a decent cai in to it.

But yes.. Any dyno sheets we can see a back to back? Would be interesting to see where it began sucking in.

markimak Grand Master

markimak

Posted
Posted

i run panel filter on my GTR.. its better than pods.. just cause GTR has too much crap and generate far more heat than an RB25 would. street cars i mean. unless u cut and re route air to the LHS of the engine bay its pointless.

having said that my brother just put on a DRIFT pod on his GTT. it sounds harder. doesnt feel quicker than the airbox.. and gives a gay drone noise at 1500rpm.

we measured the surface arear of a Trust mushroom pod we have at home and it is larger than a panel filter. not to mention the equal distance between funnel and filter substance.. wher as a panel filter is flat and the closes point is the LHS of the panel filter. so u would have different pressure rates on the sides of the filters unlike a pod which is more even.. do u guys follow?

i would rather an ARC AIRbox than a pod or stock panel filter..

Wheezy Mentor

Wheezy

Posted
Posted
Now what would be nice to see is how much power less (if any) it would make if you were to leave the stock air box and replace the afm -> turbo pipe.

OR.. If you were to open up the std box and feed a decent cai in to it.

But yes.. Any dyno sheets we can see a back to back? Would be interesting to see where it began sucking in.

thats what I was gonna suggest, run a steel pipe to the box, Im going to try this on my new setup and see how it goes

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • MBS206
      Mistakes were made, my R34 Story

      By MBS206 · Posted

      All I hear is ROADTRIP!
    • sunsetR33
      Unpeeling the Orange

      By sunsetR33 · Posted

      Update 3: Hi all It's been a while. Quite a lot of things happened in the meantime, among other things the car is (almost) back together and ready to be started again. Things that I fixed or changed: Full turbo removal, fitting back the OEM turbo oil hardlines. Had to do quite a bit of research and parts shopping to get every last piece that I need and make it work with the GT2860 turbos, but it does work and is not hard to do. Proves that the previous owner(s) just did not want to. While I was there I set the preload for the wastegates to 0,9bar to hopefully make it easier for the tuner to hit the 370hp I need for the legal inspections that will follow later on. Boost can always go up if necessary. Fitted a AN10 line from the catch can to the intake hose to make the catchcan and hopefully the cam covers a slight vacuum to have less restrictive oil returns from the head and not have mud build up as harshly in the lines and catch can. Removed the entire front interior just shy of the dashboard itself to clean up some of the absolutely horrendous wiring, (hopefully) fix the bumpy tacho and put in LED bulbs while I was there. Also put in bulbs where there was none before, like the airbag one. I also used that chance to remove the LED rpm gauge on the steering column, which was also wired in absolute horror show fashion. Moved the 4in1 Prosport gauge from sitting in front of the OEM oil pressure gauge to the center console vents, I used a 3D printed vent piece to hold that gauge there. The HKB steering wheel boss was likely on incorrectly as I sometimes noticed the indicator reset being uneven for left vs. right. In the meantime also installed an airbag delete resistor, as one should. Installed Cube Speed premium short shifter. Feels pretty nice, hope it'll work great too when I actually get to drive. Also put on a fancy Dragon Ball shift knob, cause why not. My buddy was kind enough to weld the rust hole in the back, it was basically rusted through in the lowermost corner of the passenger side trunk area where the wheel arch, trunk panel and rear quarter all meet. Obviously there is still a lot of crustiness in various areas but as long as it's not rusted out I'll just treat and isolate the corrosion and pretend it's not there. Also had to put down a new ground wire for the rear subframe as the original one was BARELY there. Probably a bit controversial depending on who you ask about this... but I ended up just covering the crack in the side of the engine block, the one above the oil feed, with JB Weld. I used a generous amount and roughed up the whole area with a Dremel before, so I hope this will hold the coolant where it should be for the foreseeable future. Did a cam cover gasket job as the half moons were a bit leaky, and there too one could see the people who worked on this car before me were absolute tools. The same half moons were probably used like 3 times without even cleaning the old RTV off. Dremeled out the inside of the flange where the turbine housing mates onto the exhaust manifolds so the diameter matches, as the OEM exhaust manifolds are even narrower than the turbine housings as we all know. Even if this doesn't do much, I had them out anyways, so can't harm. Ideally one would port-match both the turbo and the manifold to the gasket size but I really didn't feel up to disassembling the turbine housings. Wrapped turbo outlet dumps in heat wrap band. Will do the frontpipe again as well as now the oil leak which promted me to tear apart half the engine in the first place is hopefully fixed. Fitted an ATI super damper to get rid of the worn old harmonic balancer. Surely one of the easiest and most worth to do mods. But torquing that ARP bolt to spec was a bitch without being able to lock the flywheel. Did some minor adjustments in the ECU tables to change some things I didn't like, like the launch control that was ALWAYS active. Treated rusty spots and surface corrosion on places I could get to and on many spots under the car, not pretty or ideal but good enough for now. Removed the N1 rear spats and the carbon surrounding for the tailpipe to put them back on with new adhesive as the old one was lifting in many spots, not pretty. Took out the passenger rear lamp housing... what do you know. Amateur work screwed me again here as they were glued in hard and removing it took a lot of force, so I broke one of the housing bolts off. And when removing the adhesive from the chassis the paint came right off too. Thankfully all the damaged area won't be visible later, but whoever did the very limited bodywork on this car needs to have their limbs chopped off piece by piece.   Quite a list if I do say so myself, but a lot of time was spent just discovering new shit that is wrong with the car and finding a solution or parts to fix it. My last problem that I now have the headache of dealing with is that the exhaust studs on the turbo outlets are M10x1.25 threaded, but the previous owner already put on regular M10 nuts so the threads are... weird. I only found this out the hard way. So now I will just try if I can in any way fit the front pipe regardless, if not I'll have to redo the studs with the turbos installed. Lesson learned for the future: Redo ALL studs you put your hands on, especially if they are old and the previous owners were inept maniacs. Thanks for reading if you did, will update when the engine runs again. Hope nothing breaks or leaks and I can do a test drive.
    • Kapr
      What brakes on R34 GTT(Europe)

      By Kapr · Posted

      No those pads are DBA too  but they have colors too. I look at the and imo the green "street" are the best.
    • wizlb
      Who has a Infiniti Q60, Q50 (V37)?

      By wizlb · Posted

      I’m not sure what happened I told them about sonic tunes free OTS tune and the next the I know .. I was booted..   To funny 
    • Kinkstaah
      Starting again

      By Kinkstaah · Posted

      Yea - I mean I've seen my fuel pump which is decades old and uh, while I'm not saying this with real knowledge... but I sure get the ick at using anything in the fuel system that produced the state of that pump. Many years ago I went through multiple pumps (and strainers) before I dropped the tank to clean it out with extreme violence. I'm talking the car would do maybe 50km before coming to a halt, which resulted in me cleaning out the filter with some brake cleaner and going on my way. None of my stuff ever looked like what came out of your fuel tank. I don't think I'd be happy with it unless every single component was replaced (or at least checked/cleaned/confirmed to be clean here).
×
×
  • Create New...