Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 288
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

TommyK is running the Garrett 707160-5s. The 707160-10 is basically the HKS GT-RS, the 707160-7 basically the GT-SS, and the 707160-5 sits in between (one might think of it as roughly equating to the HKS2530 I guess).

Guys

this is not negative feedback. I think that Jim mustve tuned my car with something else in mind. The car was meant to be streetable. With full boost at 5000 rpm, I decided that it was time to get it tuned by another workshop, just for curioisities sake, to see if there would be a difference at the end of the day. My turbos (which are comparable to the 2530's should not be as laggy as they currently are on my car.

Lucien - the boost controller WAS playing up, but regardless, it still takes close to 5000rpm to reach wastegate actuator pressure (0.9 bar). Jerry (wrxhoon) had a drive of my car and tended to agree. The car was blowing a fair bit of black smoke, so the tune is definitely out by somewhat.

I will give feedback on both CRD's tune and BEL's tune. My posts and opinions are based purely on my car and its setup at the present point in time.

I think its always good to get a second opinion, even if it is going to cost me under couple of hundred $$$

Tommy K

get a decent boost computer (blitz spec R) and seriously look at getting some tomei poncom cams, both marko and myself have these, and I am sure he can vouch for the early spool time because of this....

I think you will find BEL will give you a great tune, as Ben knows his stuff!!

I do believe that CRD (jim) would have given you the best tune possible with the equipment you gave him....

I look forward to when BEL have their dyno room up and going!!!

in a nutshell you can only get good results from having good equipment in all areas, fall short in one, and it will effect the end result...

good luck :P

Tommy K

get a decent boost computer (blitz spec R) and seriously look at getting some tomei poncom cams, both marko and myself have these, and I am sure he can vouch for the early spool time because of this....

I think you will find BEL will give you a great tune, as Ben knows his stuff!!

I do believe that CRD (jim) would have given you the best tune possible with the equipment you gave him....

I look forward to when BEL have their dyno room up and going!!!

in a nutshell you can only get good results from having good equipment in all areas, fall short in one, and it will effect the end result...

good luck :P

All things being fair though shouldn't he get those things then give CRD another chance as I'm sure the 2 tunes will be compared after he has them and bel have tuned it

I had a good look at Morgs tune from BEL at Sundays dyno day and the afr didn't look that healthy at all, I'll ask Morgs to post it up

Tommy K

get a decent boost computer (blitz spec R) and seriously look at getting some tomei poncom cams, both marko and myself have these, and I am sure he can vouch for the early spool time because of this....

I think you will find BEL will give you a great tune, as Ben knows his stuff!!

I do believe that CRD (jim) would have given you the best tune possible with the equipment you gave him....

I look forward to when BEL have their dyno room up and going!!!

in a nutshell you can only get good results from having good equipment in all areas, fall short in one, and it will effect the end result...

good luck :P

I couldnt agree more Ben

Guys

I have poncams !!

My boost controller makes absolutely no difference until after the wastegate actuator pressure of 0.9 bar. Now I have a blitz DSBC spec R. It spools quicker in the lower gears, but 4th gear is comparable to the original controller. So ultimately, the gear is the same.

FYI i am running the following gear:

Poncams 260/9.15 ex/in

larger injectors

gt2560R garretts

nismo AFMs

exhaust + front pipes + hiflow cat

power fc

dsbc spec r

think thats about it

Guys

I have poncams !!

My boost controller makes absolutely no difference until after the wastegate actuator pressure of 0.9 bar. Now I have a blitz DSBC spec R. It spools quicker in the lower gears, but 4th gear is comparable to the original controller. So ultimately, the gear is the same.

FYI i am running the following gear:

Poncams 260/9.15 ex/in

larger injectors

gt2560R garretts

nismo AFMs

exhaust + front pipes + hiflow cat

power fc

dsbc spec r

think thats about it

Wrxhoon's old car had what are supposed to be the plain bearing equivalent of the 2560s. If I remember right, it made 1.2 bar at about 4300RPM under load.

That car had stock head, stock cams, stock valve timing, stock dumps and a 3inch exhaust.

Edited by Mik

Well I can tell you that gt2560R garretts are definitely laggy & not the same as the hks items from what I have been informed...

I assumed that you were running hks turbos.

This is where your setup differs.

Marko

BU5TER morgs made a change to the cars exhaust before the dyno which is why i belive it leaned out but on the Bell dyno runs the car only seemed to be pushed to 6800rpm when the limiter is at 8000rpm im not sure why this is and maybe you can get him to post both the dyno day graph and his tune graph for others to look at

Marko R1 when is yours gona get tuned

Edited by blk180
Well I can tell you that gt2560R garretts are definitely laggy & not the same as the hks items from what I have been informed...

I assumed that you were running hks turbos.

This is where your setup differs.

Marko

The 2560s should be far less laggy than the GTRSs though!!

TommyK

yes like I said previously I am sure if given the right equipment Jim would have given you the results you are after.... you can only work with what you have on the day... simple or as harsh as that sounds...

yes my turbos are HKS, and maybe that is just the reason I get a good spool time for the extra $$$ spent? the old saying.... "you get what you pay for...."

And Yes Morgs did make an exhaust change, and I have seen the AFRs I believe the exhaust when tuned on the dyno down south was rather restrictive, and that now with that restriction removed the engine revs free-er.... from memory it was tuned to about 6800 as power started to drop off from there... maybe that is the major change...

basically the tune was fine with the previous exhaust, and like anything, making a change as significant as that will free up some airflow....

I am confident he will have it touched up soon enough and be making a casual 500RWHP

I would also like to see what he has to say (but i probably already know)

Adjustable cam gears would probably be #1

And my dodgy boost controller be #2

I honestly dont think that adjustable gears would improve spool by *THAT* much.

well I will try and put it into figures for you timing and cam timing gave me these changes below before and after....

you make up your mind if cam timing and engine timing is worth while...

remember this is just a number, but the difference in that number is the point I am trying to make....

nearly 70AWKW on a dynolog dyno....

to put it into perspective, I know Mik's car made 280AWKW on the dynolog in the GONG and DARTs dyno log is within 1 AWKW of that....

BEL are great guys!!! Ben Eric and the Brians did wonders for me, and others I know, but there workshop is still waiting for a dyno (has been on order for ages) and this is the limiting factor...

CRD have the ability to play with GTRs for days at a time, and have been doing it since I was a baby :P

I haven't got a bad word to say about either, and my opinion doesnt have a bias either way.... just the facts are Jim got more power.... game over....

post-16093-1127881895.jpg

post-16093-1127882032.jpg

ferni.... nengun did a great deal, $3300 landed...

I had DART fit them, and fitted the trust extended dumps at the same time....

having my time over? I would also get the stainless extractors too!

you can only work with what you have on the day... simple or as harsh as that sounds...

yes my turbos are HKS, and maybe that is just the reason I get a good spool time for the extra $$$ spent? the old saying.... "you get what you pay for...."

No offence, but that sounds quite arrogant: anyone who blindly subscribed to a 'you get what you pay for' philosophy is, in my not so humble opinion, foolish. If the part performs better then it justifies a higher price otherwise your just buying hype and marketing.

For starters, the 707160-5 is a larger turbo than the GT-SS's, so it will always be slower to spool. However, given its smaller than the GT-RS, it seems odd that its spooling later than the GT-RS marko has all things being equal. From what pete has said -- who is running the same turbos with some similar modifications -- the spool should be earlier.

you make up your mind if cam timing and engine timing is worth while...

TommyK didn't suggest that cam timing would make no difference to power, he said he doubted it would improve his late-spool issue signifiantly.

I think the inference is that perhaps CRD tuned for peak power rather than average power or vice versa. I don' think -- and TommyK has said its not -- meant to be a criticsm of CRD, but possibly a misunderstanding of his objectives with the car. Either way its all academic, and with any luck TommyK will let us know how things went at BEL.

Edit: Trying to make more sense :P

one thing that really interests me is that with the CRD dyno graphs how they make the the AFR axis so zoomed out like each major block is 2.5 which means its only has to move one small block being 5 small blocks to one major block to move .5 and it would also make there afr lines look 2.5 times straighter then other dyno graphs that only jump 1 per major block and .2 per small block

I'd near bet $$$ that if you had back to back runs on a dyno with it set up both ways you'd be very surprised at the difference

with that in mind williamsf1 can you post up the AFR from the CRD tune on the DART dyno please

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Well, after the full circus this week (new gearbag, 14 psi actuator on, injectors and AFM upgraded, and.....turbo repair) the diagnosis on the wastegate is in. It was broken. It was broken in a really strange way. The weld that holds the lever arm onto the wastegate flapper shaft broke. Broke completely, but broke in such a way that it could go back together in the "correct" position, or it could rearrange itself somewhere else along the fracture plane and sit with the flapper not parallel to the lever. So, who knows how and when exactly what happened? No-one will ever know. Was it broken like this the first time it spat the circlip and wedged itself deep into the dump? Or was it only broken when I tried to pry it back into place? (I didn't try that hard, but who knows?). Or did it break first? Or did it break between the first and second event of wierdness? Meh. It doesn't matter now. It is welded back together. And it is now held closed by a 14 psi actuator, so...the car has been tuned with the supporting mods (and the order of operations there is that the supporting mods and dyno needed to be able to be done first before adding boost, because it was pinging on <<14 psi with the new turbo with only a 6 psi actuator). And then tuned up a bit, and with the boost controller turned off throughout that process. So it was only running WG pressure and so only hit about 15-16 psi. The turbo is still ever so slightly lazier than might be preferred - like it is still a bit on the big side for the engine. I haven't tested it on the road properly in any way - just driven it around in traffic for a half hour or so. But it is like chalk and cheese compared to what it was. Between dyno numbers and driving feedback: It makes 100 kW at 3k rpm, which is OK, could be better. That's stock 2JZ territory, or RB20 with G series 550. It actually starts building boost from 2k, which is certainly better than it did recently (with all the WG flapper bullshit). Although it's hard to remember what it was like prior to all that - it certainly seems much, much better. And that makes sense, given the WG was probably starting to blow open at anything above about 3 psi anyway (with the 6 psi actuator). It doesn't really get to "full boost" (say 16 psi) until >>4k rpm. I am hopeful that this is a feature of the lack of boost controller keeping boost pressure off the actuator, because it was turned off for the dyno and off for the drives afterward. There's more to be found here, I'm sure. It made 230 rwkW at not a lot more than 6k and held it to over 7k, so there seems to be plenty of potential to get it up to 250-260rwkW with 18 psi or so, which would be a decent effort, considering the stock sized turbo inlet pipework and AFM, and the return flow cooler. According to Tao, those things should definitely put a bit of a limit on it by that sort of number. I must stress that I have not opened the throttle 100% on the road yet - well, at least not 100% and allowed it to wind all the way up. It'll have to wait until some reasonable opportunity. I'm quite looking forward to that - it feels massively better than it has in a loooong time. It's back to its old self, plus about 20% extra powers over the best it ever did before. I'm going to get the boost controller set up to maximise spool and settle at no more than ~17 psi (for now) and then go back on the dyno to see what we can squeeze out of it. There is other interesting news too. I put together a replacement tube to fit the R35 AFM in the stock location. This is the first time the tuner has worked with one, because anyone else he has tuned for has gone from Z32 territory to aftermarket ECU. No-one has ever wanted to stay Nistuned and do what I've done. Anyway, his feedback is that the R35 AFM is super super super responsive. Tiny little changes in throttle position or load turn up immediately as a cell change on the maps. Way, way more responsive than any of the old skool AFMs. Makes it quite diffifult to tune as you have to stay right on top of that so you don't wander off the cell you wanted to tune. But it certainly seems to help with real world throttle response. That's hard to separate from all the other things that changed, but the "pedal feel" is certainly crisp.
    • I'm a bit confused by this post, so I'll address the bit I understand lol.  Use an air compressor and blow away the guide coat sanding residue. All the better if you have a moisture trap for your compressor. You'd want to do this a few times as you sand the area, you wouldn't for example sand the entire area till you think its perfect and then 'confirm' that is it by blowing away the guide coat residue.  Sand the area, blow away the guide coat residue, inspect the panel, back to sanding... rinse and repeat. 
    • The detail level is about right for the money they charge for the full kit... AU$21.00 each issue, 110 issues for a total of $2,300 (I mentioned $2.2K in the first post when the exchange rate was better). $20/week is doable... 馃槓
    • If planning on joining us for the day(s) please indicate by filling in this form. https://forms.gle/Ma8Nn4DzYVA8uDHg7
    • You put the driver's seat on the wrong side! Incredible detail on all of this. It looks like you could learn a lot about the car just from assembling the kit.
  • Create New...