Lithium

Yep well familiar with the injector design stuff, including fussiness - I love the Bosch injectors. I think you misinterpret some of the disagreements stuff we had on the turbo side of things still, but nonetheless it sounds like we are actually on more of a same page than you realise - I never said these things were magic at low low rpm, but they are also more streetable then you seemed to think they would be. I dislike the .63a/r housing for higher flow but at the same time I always thought a 0.82 would be a bit big for your liking, the likes of a 0.73 would probably be closer to the right kind of cup of tea for your tastes and would probably change the character just that little bit. What you are experiencing now will be probably close to as good as you are going to get, I hope it's liveable or proves justifiable when you get a full power tune and get to explore the full rev range and how the checks and balances land. Have you actually had it WOT with a bit of boost yet?

Sortof, yes - except the 68HTAs will outflow and generously out-response the 20Gs, hell even the 73HTAs out response the 20Gs... as Roy mentioned earlier. On an RB30 a pair of 68HTA-SL2s would be ruthless. Well twin 20Gs would be too, but you are getting into "BIG turbo" territory

Don't hold me to this, but I am pretty sure most of their turbos are just off the shelf turbines and they hide the combos - I believe the 65mm turbines are TD06, and the 67mm ones are the TD06H, and that even means the BB core versions (I had discussed with Rob whether it was possible to make a BB core twin SL2/68HTA type beast for a nut case lowmount RB26 twin setup and he indicated if someone were willing to pay....) The original famed FP Green was just a TD06 with a Garrett 50-trim T04E compressor, a lot of their combos come down to doing excellent turbine to compressor matches as opposed to reinventing the entire wheel - which is a worthy cause if the result is greater than the sum of the parts. The FP Green HTA in a Kando TD06 T3 externally gated housing, if I am correct - would be a relatively inexpensive weapon for the performance it could offer, which we know the compressor for is capable of 350-400wkw on E85.

So FP are selling their JB HTA for DSMs quite cheap at the moment : http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code=NTDSMFPRED&Category_Code=SP Haven't quite decided which thread it would suit better, but getting one of these into a Kando housing suitable for a Skyline would be pretty interesting - the FP Red in a TD06H T3 housing could be a crap load of fun, full TD06H 25G power with much better response thanks to the 76HTA compressor. It's an interesting power than the smallest turbine wheel FP use on their DSM turbos is the TD06, they don't touch the SL2...

Out of interest targetting AFR wise in that area? And how are you sure it's not timing that is partly to blame for the softness? There are all kinds of ways of going about the whole transient throttle tuning to get it right though, definitely where the "art" is to tuning I reckon - making good power reliably is a bare minimum. What is left on the to do list before it hits the dyno? And are you going to have a comparison with the GT-RS?

Yeah I am wondering that too Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

So the TD06H 25Gs should probably be fine too? Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Yeah that would explain it. This whole fully streetable GTR doing 7.8 thing has me giggling like a little girl: '>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeFTaWtkgqQ

More exciting FP related news, the R35 GTR world drag record was just set by English Racing running an ETS twin Super 99 HTZ turbo kit - 7.81 @ 183mph, backed up with a 7.85 @ 183mph. Cool thing is they are still slowly winding up the boost throughout the run and tuning to suit, as they haven't been able to hold the power on a dyno -and now struggling to find traction to hold the power on the strip! Definitely going to be more in this thing as weather warms up and they come to grips with it, not to mention pull some weight out - it's still not hugely far off full weight!

IGN dwell versus RPM is for charge time, to make sure the coil is charged before the spark event happens. As a real rough rule the timing will typically be at it's lowest at low rpm and equal/highest at the highest rpm - the flame has to chase the piston, funnily enough at 7500rpm the piston will pull away from the start of the flame 3x faster than at 2500rpm.... if you used the same ignition advance the flame would be left for dead and just generate heat for no useful reason.

Yep, T04Z and 3794HTA have been using the same base for years Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Similar name, but totally different turbo Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

TiAL are going to be doing externally gated V-Band housings for them soon, no doubt they'll do a .82a/r version as one of their options You can get blanks for the BOV if you want to run your own, too.. so it'd be pretty much a "normal" turbo

Eyes keep freaking out looking at that lol - you are right, well I still think it's 200kw at around 4500rpm... but yeah, maybe a bad example KINDOF but that's a HUGE turbo which I am not calling a response monster at all. Just kindof shows what a few cubes can do, Piggaz' car is hardly comparable when it's one mans mission to make the most powerful responsive "RB26" block car possible haha. Point is, look for an RB25 making 500kw @ wheels and check what power it's making at 4000-4500rpm - then bare in mind this setup ended up almost hitting 8s in a full weight R34 GTR when it went "all in". That extra 500cc makes a huge difference!

Taking until ~4300rpm to crack 200kw would normally be counted as not terrible for a road car, right? Here's a dyno plot from the soft initial pump gas tune for an RB30DET running a GT4202R - the old school requirement for 1000hp, with a lairy big cast 75mm/102mm GT-series compressor and 82mm (versus 76mm) turbine. It's a lost closer to a mild boost level GT3071R pump gas setup on an RB25 than some might guess without looking into it - a Super99 HTZ would be quite an substantial improvement over that... the GT42 turbine alone is around 8% bigger, which is quite a large difference in turbo world.

I think it probably depends on the setup, I wouldn't say that the HTA can make more Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Which are you comparing with -5s, the HTA3582 or the HTA3076? The HTA3582 would be quite an improvement in response, the HTA3076 wouldn't be comparable at all - its a much smaller turbo for a start.

Back when I learnt maths 610-510=a number much bigger than 30. When in conjunction with a few hundred rpm lower boost threshold, without bringing into question the thing the EFRs are most famous for - transient response, then yes... that's all

No the "Super" series are just the 94 and 99, they are named that way because FP have designed their own bb core and turbine wheel combination which are specifically "BIG" hahaha. I haven't seen any results on an RB or Dyno Dynamics dyno but at the same time have been following these things for a while - I figure the HTA3582 would be one of the most responsive mid 400rwkw capable turbos you could get, on E85.

So one of the drifters in NZ just replaced his old T04Z with an EFR8374 (with 1.05a/r twin scroll housing) in an effort to improve response without losing any power... the car got off the dyno today, it's actually running a head that was previously used on a drag car and a big tube turbo manifold - so not necessarily the most conducive to good response - but nonetheless an interesting comparison. General specs: Built RB30DET with 272deg cams, LOTS of headwork (initially used for >1000hp), twin scroll Sinco exhaust manifold, 1.05a/r EFR8374 (replaces the .70a/r TS T04Z that was on). These dyno plots are for 17psi and 20psi on the EFR8374 versus ~22psi for the T04Z: And Facebook post showing updates - all in it made "900hp @ engine", aka 610kw @ hubs: https://www.facebook.com/zpdrift33/posts/658380957566507?stream_ref=10 So yeah, the EFR matched the 22psi T04Z run almost all the way through the rev range using only 17psi - and well and truly surpassed it on 20psi! Definitely a big improvement, and that's before the famed transient response which he'll get to experience in a couple of weeks on it's next drift event

Fwiw I reckon the 68s will be noticeably laggier than the GT2860Rs - they'd be no GT2860R-10 laggy/surgy type beast though, from all accounts. I can't help but slightly smaller (between 60 - 68) HTA compressors would be better suited but I don't think there is a realistic option, but you would definitely create something which is somewhat mental if you did do twin 2868HTAs and tune it to suit. I know it doesn't really apply to this thread, but as a general point of interest - I believe someone has recored R35 GTR turbos with EFR6258s, I wonder if someone tooled up well enough could do the same to R32-34 GTR housings. That would be pretty choice! Yeah agreed, though on the other hand a lot of the FP single scrolls are matching or outdoing competitors twin scroll variants in terms of power and response so they are doing something right - though I'd certainly prefer the option of TS. On the topic of their single scrolls, how is this for crazy - 500+whp by 5500rpm on a 2litre on the way to what is estimated to be around 1020whp (dyno clipped at 1000whp ) with a .85a/r Super99 HTZ! eek. Thread: http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyno-tuning-results/687293-1000-whp-670wtq-2006-evo-ix-moore-automotive-built-tuned-2-0lr-fp-super-99-a.html Someone needs to put one of those buggers on an RB and profit greatly haha

Everyone I know with any similar kind of setup has cams, and often additional head work - I'm not 100% sure what to expect with stock cams but I know those guys have had decent gains by doing the cams which makes me think it could be at least a contributing factor.

+1

Wow - that's a very very impressive result. There are too many variables to call it a straight back to back, but at the same time - if it's within 100rpm then it suggests that it's going to be close regardless, and its a no brainer that the 6466 is capable of a lot more power... though at the same time the 6466 is one of those "EPIC" turbos while the HTA3586 isn't one of FP's magic ones. I'm certainly not going to defend the housing situation - I don't agree with their take on that. The FP turbos I consider as "gold" (like there is SFA which will match or better them in their particular areas) are the HTA3076, HTA3582, and Super99 though the whole range are pretty sweet considering how long they've been around and still compared to most things out there. The Precision PT6466 again is pretty hard to answer to, I think it's one of the coolest turbos to come out in a long time and certainly my favourite of Precision's offerings. Share the Precision versus HTA3586 result in the appropriate thread if possible?

It's astounding.... Time is fleeting! Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk