High Kw Reading

[nisskid]

^^lol yeh not the greatest set out. hopefully the next dyno day will have AFR print outs so i can get a more accurate look.

[StOjA]

Could someone please explain what a freak engine is?? and how you could tell if you have one

[paulr33]

no such thing as a freak engine. it if makes more power than expected, there is a reason. ecu could be remapped, turbo could be modified, the list goes on.

there is always a reason. the stock ecu doesnt just decide to throw in more timing cos its feeling like a "freak". the have hardset instructions on what to change, and its usually to retard timing when they detect certain events, never advance. so it wont be a case of a freak ecu.

[Mandingo]

My guess is crook fuel pump leaning the mixtures off enough to make more power.

[Sydneykid]

My guess is crook fuel pump leaning the mixtures off enough to make more power.

Not likely, if the fuel pump is struggling they lean off as the rpm increases, this one actually richens up slightly as the rpm increases.

cheers

Edited May 22, 2006 by Sydneykid

[Cubes]

Blackwood auto and dyno do cheap power runs for $35.. Well they used to.

They will hook up their little controller thingo majig to the ecu's diagnostics port, that gives a live read out of ign being run etc.

Head down and grab a second dyno run if you want to burst your bubble or to confirm something has been fiddled with.

[nisskid]

^^wonder if theyd give me a discount from doing work experience there

oh and on the freak engine, i have heard a few cases of cars with everything stock pulling unusually high figures and not being able to see anything non-stock.

like i said, i was told it could be one, personally i dont think mine is one. only thing is even mark from turbo tune said, and i quote: "its a good one" in response to my question about why it pulled such high figures.

[Cubes]

I think if we were talking about a motor manufactured in australia then well yes.. there is freak motors.

Nissan motors are extremely well built from factory..

You may have a really nice exhaust, no cat, tweaked ecu or simply the dyno was reading a little high due to an incorrectly placed temp sensor.

apart from that.. it may have been rebuilt running a little more compression than a std one.

[ellie]

Read your initial post and emediately was suspicious of you AFR and then read on to see SK had the same suspicion. By that he means if you have a dyno run with a standard (untampered) engine management in a skyline usually, off boost will show very lean due to the tune for idle/low revs emmissions then as boost comes on it swings heavily into the rich to safegaurd the motor under all variances of conditions. And still will be a wavy line and not a smooth curve where as you AFR's are almost perfectly flat through your rev range which leads you to the conclusion that things have been tweeked before!

[Tangles]

no such thing as a freak engine. it if makes more power than expected, there is a reason. ecu could be remapped, turbo could be modified, the list goes on.

there is always a reason. the stock ecu doesnt just decide to throw in more timing cos its feeling like a "freak". the have hardset instructions on what to change, and its usually to retard timing when they detect certain events, never advance. so it wont be a case of a freak ecu.

Im certain that with motorbike engines, a power run of 5 bikes of same model (argue say 5 x dec07 model 1998 918.5cc Fireblades) will show 5 different power figures. Say these 5 bikes have been auto run-in for an extra 800kms in the factory machinery, then serviced and dynoed. Youd have varients from 112rwhp up to 118rwhp and not one would be the same. One of these engines might read as high as say 120rwhp and therefore be a freak when compared to the 112rwhp engine.

And all of this adds up when further tuning a bike engine. Stroke it to say 954cc, and again there would be a power difference between the 5 bikes, add full exhaust, air, flatslide carbs, ect etc etc. You can end up having 5 highly modified bikes, all same mods at same time with same conditions, but have 5 different end power ouputs. With above example, youd have varients of the 5 from 158rwhp up tp 175rwhp.

BUT if these engines were all ported and polished and rebuilt at the same time by the same tuner Id suggest theyd come closer together with their power outputs, with a much lower % of power difference. Theyd all then be sitting between 175-180rwhp.

I wonder is this the same with larger car engines? ie if the same process was used with 5 Skylines (like the above model) would there be a large varience in 'stock' power? Im sure it would be, surely there are tolerence levels built into the factory machinery. Id imagine up to a 8% power output difference with cars from the same factory.

Or are my thoughts misguided?

[Munna1]

Some dyno operaters setup the dyno's to give happy reading mate. All looks good with AFR's ect so thats the main thing. Id say your chip has been edited at some stage

cheers

[Sydneykid]

Im certain that with motorbike engines, a power run of 5 bikes of same model (argue say 5 x dec07 model 1998 918.5cc Fireblades) will show 5 different power figures. Say these 5 bikes have been auto run-in for an extra 800kms in the factory machinery, then serviced and dynoed. Youd have varients from 112rwhp up to 118rwhp and not one would be the same. One of these engines might read as high as say 120rwhp and therefore be a freak when compared to the 112rwhp engine.

And all of this adds up when further tuning a bike engine. Stroke it to say 954cc, and again there would be a power difference between the 5 bikes, add full exhaust, air, flatslide carbs, ect etc etc. You can end up having 5 highly modified bikes, all same mods at same time with same conditions, but have 5 different end power ouputs. With above example, youd have varients of the 5 from 158rwhp up tp 175rwhp.

BUT if these engines were all ported and polished and rebuilt at the same time by the same tuner Id suggest theyd come closer together with their power outputs, with a much lower % of power difference. Theyd all then be sitting between 175-180rwhp.

I wonder is this the same with larger car engines? ie if the same process was used with 5 Skylines (like the above model) would there be a large varience in 'stock' power? Im sure it would be, surely there are tolerence levels built into the factory machinery. Id imagine up to a 8% power output difference with cars from the same factory.

Or are my thoughts misguided?

You are taking about highly tuned (even standard) N/A engines, where differences in running in procedure can show up as a power difference. Not really the case on a turbocharged, mildly tuned engine (in comparison).

When I worked in the car industry, we tried 30 cars of the same model on the in house dyno and there wasn’t 2 horsepower difference in the climate controlled room. Open the windows and doors and the numbers were all over the place, depending on the time of the day and the weather conditions.

It’s all about quality control and consistent manufacturing tolerances.

cheers

[Tangles]

You are taking about highly tuned (even standard) N/A engines, where differences in running in procedure can show up as a power difference. Not really the case on a turbocharged, mildly tuned engine (in comparison).

When I worked in the car industry, we tried 30 cars of the same model on the in house dyno and there wasn’t 2 horsepower difference in the climate controlled room. Open the windows and doors and the numbers were all over the place, depending on the time of the day and the weather conditions.

It’s all about quality control and consistent manufacturing tolerances.

cheers

fair call

[TTT]

I also wouldnt mind showing this, it is marks car for sale which pulls 165kw on the same dyno as mine, have a look at the mods list: http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/index.p...opic=157348&hl=

and that sounds bout a right figure for those mods, so i dont think the dyno could be running that high.

from the link..

Modifications:

* ASE FRONT MOUNT INTERCOOLER KIT

* BLITZ TURBO TIMER

*NISMO SHORT SHIFTER

*PIONEER STERIO

*ADJUSTABLE CASTER BUSHES

*HKS AIR POD

*WALBRO 500HP FUEL PUMP

*CUSCO REAR AND FRONT STRUT BRACE

*3'' TURBO BACK EXHAUST WITH MANDREL BENT FRONT/DUMP PIPE

*STIFF CUSCO MECHANICAL DIFF

*LOWERED RS*R SUSPENTION

*NEW CLUCH (CUSHIONED PUSH BUTTON CERAMIC)

*CAR IS MAKING 164RWKW ON 11PSI

it's pretty obvious that the dyno reads high.

a stock rb20 has 10 psi from factory.

and makes about 110 rwkw.

so how does this gus rb20det on 11 psi make 164 rwkw?

with the only power oriented mods on his car being FMIC, HKS pod, walbro pump, turbo back exhaust.

as stated though, your ecu MUST be chipped with the A:F ratio's the way they are..

take it out, take a photo and post here..

people can point out if it is chipped or not for you.

[Oosh]

NissKid, did you ever find out if your ECU was chipped?

[Cubes]

I was down at boostworx recently and was speaking to a bloke that recently bought a tidy looking R32 GTST.

He was told it previously pulled 170rwkw and had a highflow turbo.

Ran it up on the dyno and it was clear it was a standard turbo. It made 160rwkw on 13psi with 11.5:1 AFR's Which is a fair effort.

In car feel wise I remember with mine there was a fair difference between 11psi and 13psi.

Looking at the dyno sheet again; 150rwkw with a cat back 3". I suspect it may very well be on the money as the afr's are near perfect.

[Oosh]

True, mine made close to 150RWKW @ 12 psi last year on Shaun's dyno, it had a chipped ECU, but it's not far different from the stock maps mainly improving the bottom end.

Edited September 13, 2006 by Oosh

[nisskid]

late response, but nah, didnt find out, but i am assuming it has something done, i mean its not only the power, its the fuel consumption aswell, its pretty incredible.

next dyno day, im there, and i can compare against other cars, most likely just a high dyno reading.

[RPR33]

just check the ecu.

My car has some ksp tunning sticker on the ecu but its not a freak or anything makes the power it should!

I think 175kw on 9psi 3'' zorst and frount mount? (r33)

[salad]

my car pulled 170rwkw with rb25 turbo, exhaust, no cooler etc etc on 1bar

then got it tuned and had a front mount got around 11-11.5 AFRs and pulled 156 @ 1bar on a different dyno.

dynos are stupid...