A Few Thoughts On Eccs Remapping

[aphid]

hey,

not sure if anybody else here has really looked into the whole eccs (stock ecu) remapping side of things, but i've been giving it a bit of thought as of late. actually flashing and changing maps etc on the rom onboard the ecu is not much of a problem, but when it comes to tuning the only real way i've seen people doing it is to buy a rom emulator so that maps and other details can actually be changed on the fly, ie when the engine is running, and then flashing the rom when you're happy with the maps etc. The rom emulators are big bucks, and without one it becomes quite tedious as one has to flash the rom after every little detail they change, which would suck majorly. Doing it either of these ways i imagine it would be quite hard to do a proper map trace too.

anyway, i was looking through the consult protocol (http://www.plmsdevelopments.com/images_ms/Consult_Protocol_&_Commands_Issue_6.pdf#search='consult%20protocol') that plms developments have reverse engineered and noticed that all maps can be temporarily adjusted. with this in mind, i believe it would be possible through the consult port and after developing the right software (after watching dr drift i _think_ this is what he's working on) to emulate the entire operation of the ecu from a laptop and tune from that, thus eliminating the need for a rom emulator. this would also make map tracing a synch and could also be tied in with accurate o2 readings from a wideband to make sure everything is running fine.

the only real problems i can see with this setup is weather or not the speed of the consult bus and refresh rate would be enough to keep up with the engine..

anyhow, just after other peoples thoughts and experiences at this stage, perhaps something could be developed together making tuning for all us skyliners alot cheaper and easier.

i was also wondering on what people have done to keep the cvt enabled when implementing the r32 ecu on the r33 (the r33 ecu is alot more work to mess with as opposed to the 32 ecu)..

cheers,

mark.

[The Dan]

To my knowledge, the consult does not have the capability to change fuel map at different load points but rather a rough adjustment across the board. You can also change base timing but once again, not at different load points, only across the board. The EEPROM upgrade will still remain the best way to do it.

I am pretty sure Sam is still the only person who can remap 'on the fly' as well.

To make temporary adjustments permanant, you would need some type of laptop or computer device to continuously send data to the given addresses. This, in itself, would end up costing much more than just a remap.

[aphid]

good points, the consult doesn't have the ability to actually change the fuel maps, but this is where the whole emulation thing i should've been mroe clearer on comes into play. you can change the fuel / timing across the board, but with the consult you also have access to every sensor that the ecu has access too when it calculates which cell to use in each map, so theoretically all that would have to be done is to whip up a script that reads the inputs from the sensors and then reads the appropriate cells then adjusts the fuel/igintion/whatever to suit, just as the ecu would do itself. when tuning is complete one saves the image, removes the laptop from the consult port then flashes the rom in the ecu and bob's your uncle.. theorectically

[The Dan]

I don't think the standard ecu is flashable though...or is it?

Not 100% on that one.

Sam actually desolders the stock chip and replaces it with an EPROM that he can write to.

[aphid]

yeah it's a 16 bit PROM, meaning it can't be overwritten. you can get the 16bit EPROMS (erasable programable) roms from jaycar for not much at all.. UV erasers are about $40 on special too i'm told..

[mad082]

certainly worth looking into.

[rob82]

To my knowledge, the consult does not have the capability to change fuel map at different load points but rather a rough adjustment across the board. You can also change base timing but once again, not at different load points, only across the board. The EEPROM upgrade will still remain the best way to do it.

I am pretty sure Sam is still the only person who can remap 'on the fly' as well.

To make temporary adjustments permanant, you would need some type of laptop or computer device to continuously send data to the given addresses. This, in itself, would end up costing much more than just a remap.

I can garuntee you that he is not the only person to make changes on the fly. Hasn't he only just worked out how to chip/emulate the s15? And no the standard ECU is not flashable it's just an EPROM to flash you need EEPROM.

Edited August 30, 2006 by rob82

[carl h]

check out liveedit, combined with a romulator you an mod and edit the maps for your stock ecu on the fly.

for people tuning with a eprom burner i sudgest some amtel 29c256 chips which are flash chips and are electronicly eraseable and drop in for the std 27c256 chips that are found in the stock ecu.

number of ways to do this but whatever you choose the outcome is up to how well its tuned.

the stock ecu is VERY capable and can do some impressive things, tune it right and it will treat you well every time.

[aphid]

thanks for the info carlh, the reason i was thinking of attempting this is that it is cheap for everybody to use, software (freeware ) doesn't cost money, the only price would be the socket and chip, which isn't much, but when you start factoring in the romulators things start getting expensive as i haven't been able to find a cheapish (as in they're all around the $400 mark from what i've seen) one yet :\ anyway if anybody else can shed some more light on the topic i'd be most appreciative

[fr0st]

I'm fairly sure fuel maps can't be adjusted at all from the consult interface like base timing. But for timing tuning, if you did a real time map trace through the consult and dynamicaly adjusted the base timing you could tune timing maps in real time.

For instance, say if you wanted an extra 2 degrees of ignition at a certain rpm and load point, the program would give the 'change base timing by +2 degrees' command while the map trace shows it was using that certain cell. As soon as it left that cell it'd take away the command or issue a different one to suit another cell.

I'm sure it could be done, I just don't really have the time and enthusiasm at the moment

[carl h]

i dunno where you are looking man but the emulator that works with live edit is 179usd/230ish aud...

http://xtronics.com/memory/pktROM.htm

its much more affordable than you think.

[Color_Of_Green]

Sounds interesting but a bit of a hassle to save a few hundred bucks.'

I'd be mre interested in replacing main processor with a PIC chip, external RAM and flash which are incredibly flexible and easy to program.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Color_Of_Green

[carl h]

or run your r33 off of a rb20det ecu with a window switch to control the vtc...

[midnight]

I havent read everyones posts but Badbiki makes a flash daughterboard with usb interface that does away with the need of emulators, but the price is quite large compared to a standard daughterboard so I dont see an advantage unless you plan on doing some tuning yourself.

Edited September 1, 2006 by midnight

[carl h]

i had looked into using the biki board for the rb20 ecu and even had one in my hands for a short bit but the biki board doesnt 'truly' support the 27c256 prom based ecus, it requires a jumper harness...

to my knowledge lucas (badbiki) hasnt completed the prom ecu stuff yet.

[midnight]

my mistake. apparantly the new bad biki boards are still not able to update in realtime.

they do have maptrace however so u can do a run, turn the car off, update the flash then start it up again and keep going.