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Electroinic Boost Controller (ebc) Survey

J_Red33

By J_Red33,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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mokompri Community Regular

mokompri

Posted
Posted (edited)
isn't that just the duty cycle?

nope ;) ones frequency, ones duty cycle.

it can adjust both. all other ebc's only allow an adjustable duty cycle, with a set frequency - which is understandable since they come with their own solenoid and they probably found whats optimum. the jaycar ebc doesnt come with one, so you use your own, so they allow you to fine tune that - i believe the jaycar runs at 10hz out of the box, which i think is a bit low but anyways.. also the jaycar shows the ACTUAL duty cycle you are running, where as most other ebc's have their own numbering system representing the actual duty cycle.

edit: fyi, as an example a solenoid running at 10hz means it opens and closes 10 times a second, so at 50% duty cycle it opens 5 times a second. too low a frequency can cause fluctuating boost when you reach max boost (which is the problem i had).

Edited by mokompri
J_Red33 Experienced

J_Red33

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Posted (edited)
Its the same EBC whether you are running an external or integral wastegate. There are 3 ports on the solenoid and the wastegate type that you are running determines which of the two ports you connect to and use. I have had the same AVC-R run my std turbo and my TD06 with external gate.

Thanks for clearing that up Roy. Don't know why Perfect Run says there's 2 different types though :( Or at least that's the way I read it. A bit misleading really:

http://www.perfectrun.com.au/performance%2...oostconavcr.htm

nope :) ones frequency, ones duty cycle.

it can adjust both. all other ebc's only allow an adjustable duty cycle, with a set frequency - which is understandable since they come with their own solenoid and they probably found whats optimum. the jaycar ebc doesnt come with one, so you use your own, so they allow you to fine tune that - i believe the jaycar runs at 10hz out of the box, which i think is a bit low but anyways.. also the jaycar shows the ACTUAL duty cycle you are running, where as most other ebc's have their own numbering system representing the actual duty cycle.

edit: fyi, as an example a solenoid running at 10hz means it opens and closes 10 times a second, so at 50% duty cycle it opens 5 times a second. too low a frequency can cause fluctuating boost when you reach max boost (which is the problem i had).

Just some extra information: The solenoid won't actually open & close if the frequency is high enough. The idea is to actually pump a frequency into the solenoid that is high enough that it stops opening & closing so that it holds a certain position, but not so high that it stops responding properly. Solenoids are tricky things, each 1 works differently & will respond at different speeds their power input, which is why you'd have the frequency change.

If the solonoid is actually opening & closing at 10 Hz it's gonna cause mayhem with the boost.

Edited by JazzaR33
khunjeng Veteran

khunjeng

Posted
Posted
nope :( ones frequency, ones duty cycle.

it can adjust both. all other ebc's only allow an adjustable duty cycle, with a set frequency - which is understandable since they come with their own solenoid and they probably found whats optimum. the jaycar ebc doesnt come with one, so you use your own, so they allow you to fine tune that - i believe the jaycar runs at 10hz out of the box, which i think is a bit low but anyways.. also the jaycar shows the ACTUAL duty cycle you are running, where as most other ebc's have their own numbering system representing the actual duty cycle.

edit: fyi, as an example a solenoid running at 10hz means it opens and closes 10 times a second, so at 50% duty cycle it opens 5 times a second. too low a frequency can cause fluctuating boost when you reach max boost (which is the problem i had).

duty cycle is the ratio of the non-zero component of the pulse to the total time of a single pulse. Freq. is Hz..i.e. osc / second...

You can run a 10Hz signal and have 50% duty - i.e. square wave. If you adjust the duty cycle would can still run 10Hz but have a duty of say 70%....longer on pulses...however the freq can remain the same...

Hence as you have suggested, once you have found the op. freq. of our soladoid then there is not need to adjust freq..just duty and I assume thats what most major products are doing...adjusting pulse width at a constant frequency.

As for the AVCR...it displays duty at a %, maxx 100...so I assume it dispaying the actual duty..

mokompri Community Regular

mokompri

Posted
Posted (edited)
Just some extra information: The solenoid won't actually open & close if the frequency is high enough. The idea is to actually pump a frequency into the solenoid that is high enough that it stops opening & closing so that it holds a certain position, but not so high that it stops responding properly. Solenoids are tricky things, each 1 works differently & will respond at different speeds their power input, which is why you'd have the frequency change.

If the solonoid is actually opening & closing at 10 Hz it's gonna cause mayhem with the boost.

yeap your right, julian makes mention of this in the book and the manual, he says the solenoid 'hovers' between the open and close state with a high enough frequency (not necessarily a bad thing). if i had a multimeter that measured frequency i would have tried around 15hz and see how that went on my sr20 stock solenoid.

duty cycle is the ratio of the non-zero component of the pulse to the total time of a single pulse. Freq. is Hz..i.e. osc / second...

You can run a 10Hz signal and have 50% duty - i.e. square wave. If you adjust the duty cycle would can still run 10Hz but have a duty of say 70%....longer on pulses...however the freq can remain the same...

Hence as you have suggested, once you have found the op. freq. of our soladoid then there is not need to adjust freq..just duty and I assume thats what most major products are doing...adjusting pulse width at a constant frequency.

As for the AVCR...it displays duty at a %, maxx 100...so I assume it dispaying the actual duty..

yes i realise all of that and that the frequency remains the same when you change duty cycle, but your missing the point, there is[/] a reason why you would want to adjust the frequency. like i said, with too low a frequency the output stream of air is too 'choppy' (pulses of air are too big and seperated) and gives fluctuating boost, increasing the frequency within the limit of the solenoid gives a more linear stream of air that goes to the wastegate that gives a more stable boost.

as for the avcr, ive never used but if thats what it displays then its one of the exceptions :)

Edited by mokompri
khunjeng Veteran

khunjeng

Posted
Posted
but your missing the point

no I'm not...it was in response to this regarding your FYI

fyi, as an example a solenoid running at 10hz means it opens and closes 10 times a second, so at 50% duty cycle it opens 5 times a second

this is clearly incorrect. 10Hz = 10 open & and closes per second...its not related to duty at all. Hnce if some1 says 50% duty you cannot relate it to Freq. without more information.

anyway who cares...

AVCR for the win IMO...set and forget...

J_Red33 Experienced

J_Red33

Posted
  • Author
Posted
yeap your right, julian makes mention of this in the book and the manual, he says the solenoid 'hovers' between the open and close state with a high enough frequency (not necessarily a bad thing). if i had a multimeter that measured frequency i would have tried around 15hz and see how that went on my sr20 stock solenoid.

Yeah this is actually the ideal situation for the solonoid, it's actually not very good if it's opening & closing continuously as it will shorten the life of the solonoid from the amount of movement as well as causing vibrations for heavier solonoids.

The frequency is normally kept constant for a given set up. Very unusual for it to use frequency modulation as well.

Trooper Experienced

Trooper

Posted
Posted
Apexi AVCR Blue Screen version.

I love this EBC...you can have 2 settings...easy to change while driving...easy to see whats happening. can chnage pretty much everything I would need...like rev specific boost etc...although I have never done it.

Hasn't spiked once...I am running it at 1.3 bar atm...seems to b smooth as...

Not that I have used anything else.

I have the AVR_R too. Happy with the way it performs, however I would prefer easier boost change (e.g. from A-B settting), it would be easier to have an "A" button and a "B" button or HI/LOW boost button, instead of having to navigate through the menu.

Saying that, it does the job it is meant to, doesnt spike and holds boost nicely right up to redline.

I probably should have gone the Apexi boost control add on for the PFC, and if i had the choice again that is what I would do. It is one less thing to try to mount on the dash (and hide from cops/thieves).

jazza08 Mentor

jazza08

Posted
Posted

Apart from the billion other functions this boost controller has, id spend the money and will never buy another type. Wastegate pressure is around 14psi so the boost controller picks up the rest. Was worth the money thats for sure.

Turbosmart E-Boost 2 FTW!

Proof is below :laugh:

300rwhpwi5.th.jpg

J_Red33 Experienced

J_Red33

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Ok a bit of a quick question for you guys with the AVC-R How big is the control solonoid?

Reason I ask is that I want to keep everything as hidden as possible & am thinking of trying to hide the controller underneath the air box. I just went into Autobarn a few days back & they had Blitz controller module on display (I think for the Dual SBC model), it was HUGE. Not sure that I want to shove something quite that bulky in my engine bay full stop.

paulr33 Grand Master

paulr33

Posted
Posted

a bit bigger than a box of matches, its obviousl because it usually has large plastic tubing running to it, some poeple even have the air tubes in bright colours so its a giveway

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