The Next Ecu To Dominate The Sau Community?

[HRthirtyone]

why does everyone think you cant "fine tune" a microtech????

thats what the new generation stuff with matrix mode is for!!!!!!!!!

my economy is same as stock!! with lt12s, 555cc inj. gtr pump. etc

[Cubes]

When you say matrix you mean interpolation.. i.e averaging surrounding cells?

Tim Possingham was/is a wizard with the Microtechs, BUT I do remember he mentioned it can be tuned for the absolute best economy but slight response does suffer. Its just a limitation of the limited load and rpm points. Interpolation can only 'guess' so good.

[Busky2k]

Maybe that was an issue with the old Microtechs?

[32vspecII]

so does the microtech have closed loop now ?

theres a couple of 33 pfcs on ebay and even a 34 one for 1350$

still cheap in comparison to what else is out there , just dont think about the old price a couple of months ago

[Cubes]

You can get good economy without closed loop.

But no.. The Microtech doesn't have closed loop yet.

[paulr33]

i ran my PFC with closed loop off for a few months (extensive work on the fuel maps however)

getting around 400k's to tank, sometimes slightly under

with it on it was consistent over 400k's to a tank

so its not the be-all and end all, but it is a good feature to have

if the fuel maps havent been tuned properly (lots of time/labour) then economy will suck without working closed loop.

[tom9999]

Whats the best plug and play ECU for price that you can still buy. Also is Apexi upgrading the PFC or are bring out a another ECU

[Anakha]

I didnt want to start a new thread so i thought I'd post this here.... sry for being a bit off topic.

I just wanted to verify that SAFCs/SAFC2s are universal? Ty

[JustinP]

so does the microtech have closed loop now ?

theres a couple of 33 pfcs on ebay and even a 34 one for 1350$

still cheap in comparison to what else is out there , just dont think about the old price a couple of months ago

That 34 PFC on Ebay is currently on its way to me now Paid too much for it but I don't care, at least I was able to get one finally.

[murrayis]

What do you guys think of Adaptronic ECU's ?

[Sydneykid]

Maybe a little clarification might help.

The SAFC/SITC combo sits between the AFM & CAS and the standard ECU. So they modify the signals that the standard ECU receives, tricking it into using the load points on the fuel and ignition maps that give you the desired A/F ratio and ignition timing.

AFM --> SAFC --> standard ECU

CAS --> SITC --> standard ECU

The Jaycar DFA kit achieves the same thing

AFM --> DFA --> standard ECU

The DFA is obviously quite cheap (~$80 plus $70 for the Controller). SAFC’s are readily available, new and used but SITC’s are hard to find as they have been out of production for some time.

The big advantage is you can fit them yourself, set them on zero correction and then drive around just as you would if they weren’t there. Or drive to the dyno for tuning. The SAFC (& DFA) will enable you to stretch the standard AFM as far as it can go before it maxes out. The standard ECU protection stuff (knock and limp home for example) still function.

These are easy to tune, 20 minutes max on a dyno for SAFC/DFA, less than that for the SITC. They have been around for years, so plenty of tuners have experience, even if they don’t, it only takes a few minutes to get familiar

They don’t disable the 180 kph speed limiter, so if you are doing any track work you will need something like a HKS SLD (Speed Limit Defeater/Defender)

The EManage sits between the standard ECU and injectors and the coil ignitors. So it modifies the signals that the standard ECU sends, using the load points on the EManage fuel and ignition maps to give you the desired A/F ratio and ignition timing.

Standard ECU --> EManage --> Injectors

Standard ECU --> Emanage --> Ignitors

The main problems with EManage in the past was its inability to run R33/34 ignitors. A few guys seem to have had success lately so maybe the problem has been overcome. If it has, then they are not a bad choice. No SLD required as the EManage intercepts the speed signal before it gets to the ECU. Since the EManage controls the spark there is no ignition retard on gear changes in autos, so the gear changes are a bit harsher and the gearbox will wear out a little bit faster. The ignition cut on full throttle gear changes seems to still work (limited testing) so it isn't as bad as using an aftermarket ECU with an auto.

The HKS FCon in its various generations is pretty much like an EManage. Except the tuning software is only available to HKS approved (royalty paying) workshops. Last time I checked that was only one in Australia, BD4’s in Sydney

In theory the EManage should enable you to drive the car to the dyno, but this hasn’t been the case in many instances. They are not as popular, so not as much experience out their in tuner land. Be careful of the add ons, the base price may seem attractive, but the options soon add up.

That covers the major piggy backs, ECU observations another day.

cheers

[QRI05E]

Apexi Power FC has to be the best value for money ECU for Skylines if you can get your hands on one. However it too has limitations due to MAF/AFM prerequesit. A MAP sensor based ECU will handle higher power levels with more accuracy from what i have read.

I personally dont like the idea of an interceptor type aka piggy back systems cause your only fudging the signals that the ECU recieves.

So for stand-alone ECU's my research has lead me to the conclusion that the following would be my order of preference due to cost Vs value:

1. Apexi PFC (Plug & Play) - AFM

2. Haltech E11v2 (Plug & Play) - MAP Sensor

3. EMS 8860 (Wire in) - MAP Sensor

4. Autronic (Plug & Play) - MAP Sensor

5. Motech (Wire in) - MAP Sensor

Cheers

[paulr33]

However it too has limitations due to MAF/AFM prerequesit. A MAP sensor based ECU will handle higher power levels with more accuracy from what i have read.

this is inaccurate, covered in the powerfc faq in great detail

d jetro vs l jetro for both powerfc and other mainstream ecu's

you should read it

its not a limitation, in fact map gives you less load points making it having less accuracy

[QRI05E]

Yea your right with that paul, i heard that MAP sensor based ECU usually have poorer fuel economy compared to AFM based ECU's due to more load points...

Thanks for clearing that up!

Cheers

[Angus Smart]

Fcon pro v for the win!

still am yet to get mine tuned but when i do its going to be an animal and my fuel is going to last a wee bit longer one would think!

will get it over to bd4's soon

[Angus Smart]

this is inaccurate, covered in the powerfc faq in great detail

d jetro vs l jetro for both powerfc and other mainstream ecu's

you should read it

its not a limitation, in fact map gives you less load points making it having less accuracy

is this only really comparing power fc d jetro to l jetro tho?

[paulr33]

well the topic is around the powerfc as its in the powerfc faq.

but the same principal of ljetro (airflow meter) vs djetro (map sensor) still applies. very interesting read. the only reason you woud have poorer fuel economy would be the tune and the time spent on it.

there is no reason both cannot have the same fuel economy and power from either afm or map sensor. map sensor will probably take longer to tune and run sinle axis style once target boost is reached (generalisation)

[Chigga311]

well the topic is around the powerfc as its in the powerfc faq.

but the same principal of ljetro (airflow meter) vs djetro (map sensor) still applies. very interesting read. the only reason you woud have poorer fuel economy would be the tune and the time spent on it.

there is no reason both cannot have the same fuel economy and power from either afm or map sensor. map sensor will probably take longer to tune and run sinle axis style once target boost is reached (generalisation)

There's a guy somewhere down under.

Bikirom- Made for SR's, KA's, VG's etc.

It opens up your stock ECU so you can do anything the computer does.

Currently it doesn't work for the RB's, but it we send him some emails maybe he'll be interested in adapting his product for us.

www.Bikirom.com

[32vspecII]

That 34 PFC on Ebay is currently on its way to me now smile.gif Paid too much for it but I don't care, at least I was able to get one finally.

how much did it go for ?

[32vspecII]

i ran my PFC with closed loop off for a few months (extensive work on the fuel maps however)

getting around 400k's to tank, sometimes slightly under

with it on it was consistent over 400k's to a tank

so its not the be-all and end all, but it is a good feature to have

if the fuel maps havent been tuned properly (lots of time/labour) then economy will suck without working closed loop.

no its not but as you said it costs $$$ to tune for cruizing and modify that end of the map which most people dont do , particularly microtech buyers down the bottom end of the scale

and with closed loop the ecu is automatically tuning itself for optimum economy

so its a win situation

defiently not the end of everything , particularly in race type setups where its mostly WOT but its still a good thing to have and if microtechs had it 90% of the cars runing them would get better fuel usage