First Option For Front Adjusting - Negative Camber

[evil_weevil]

Hey guys,

If you could only get 1 of the two mods mentioned above at one time - would would you get first?

Car is used for track days once a month as an idea.

basically reducing understeer and get some more negative camber - which would you get first up - as in if you could only get 1 due to funds etc.

ideas and comments please

[Kinks]

caster. adding more camber will cause the tyres to wear a lot on the inside, as you spend most of your time on the street driving straight.

but I am no guru

[BHDave]

I'd say caster as well. You maintain your static camber so no tram lining or reduced contact patch under braking and increase your dynamic camber when cornering. It's win-win

[evil_weevil]

Cheers guys!

static camber?

dynamic camber?

Im a n00b at suspension still....so yes, still learning the lingo!

how do both differ from each other?

[Kinks]

the effect of caster is that it adds "dynamic camber" - the more you turn the wheel the more camber you get. but when you straighten the wheel, camber gets less. this is good because the tyres lean into the corner when they need to (under load) and not when you're driving straight.

[salad]

For a street driven car, castor is definitely much better. Too much camber will wear your tyres too much. If you had an R32 though, I would go camber kit first because you gain castor as you increase camber due to the angle of the upper arm.

Get castor adjustment and get as much as you can without scrubbing your front bar.

Static camber: The amount of camber when there is no movement. No moving of the wheel up and down from bumps, no turning of the steering wheel.

Dynamic camber: The change in camber as the suspension goes through its travel and the effects of castor as you turn the wheel

Edited February 12, 2007 by salad

[djr81]

Hmm, having done the two mods in turn I would strongly recommend you do the camber adjustment BEFORE the caster adjustment. The amount of -ve camber the caster adds is suprisingly small when you have a quarter of turn of lock on. Certainly much less than the one degree or so a camber kit will offer. Skylines need -ve camber at the front to generate cornering grip, otherwise you just end up with an understeering pig.

Also, if you haven't already you need to get the cars roll under control - which means sway bars & dampers.

Any even half serious track day will consume tyres at a far greater rate than even a large amount of road travel. Once a month is a lot of track time as far as tyres are concerned. You wil probably chunk the tread blocks - hence I would suggest getting yourself a proper track tyre even if it is only a Falken or Federal or similar.

[evil_weevil]

thanks for the reply guys, I think at this stage I'll go the front adjustable caster and f & r sway bars.

[padey]

  evil_weevil said:

thanks for the reply guys, I think at this stage I'll go the front adjustable caster and f & r sway bars.

I've been reading this thread with great interest, as my car understeers a bit too.

Any idea on a good adjustable camber kit? I'm not sure where to start.

cheers,

padey

[djr81]

  padey said:

I've been reading this thread with great interest, as my car understeers a bit too.

Any idea on a good adjustable camber kit? I'm not sure where to start.

cheers,

padey

You won't stop an R32 R understeering until you either dial in some more -ve camber and/or get the front end roll under control. Check the group buy section for Whiteline bits. I would recommend using something like this kit rather than the Noltec style upper arms or the other Midori style upper links. don;t worry about caster either as this does very little to help things.

Also do a search for the part number to see a useful discussion on the same.

[evil_weevil]

  djr81 said:

don;t worry about caster either as this does very little to help things.

is that just in regards to the 32 gtr's?

[djr81]

  evil_weevil said:

is that just in regards to the 32 gtr's?

No. In fact it is a truism for almost all cars heading out onto a circuit.

To be properly balanced you don't want much steering lock through the corner. Any more than about a quarter on a GT-R & it is an ugly thing. With this relatively small amount of lock you really need ALOT of caster to make a difference. R32 GT-R's only have 3 degrees. Going to 4 or 5 makes the steering heavier & more self centring (Which is why drift nuggets love caster) but really doesn't do much for your grip.

It is one of those things that if fine as far as it goes, but is secondary to other, more important parameters, ie camber.

Edited February 13, 2007 by djr81

[Beer Baron]

well, personally I loved the difference the caster made. but yes the camber is important too, and overall makes a much bigger difference to mid corner grip. but I did like the feel at turn in with more caster (and yes I did both seperately).

before doing camber and caster I'd say look at sway bars, shocks and springs, and then you may as well do camber and caster too as they can be done cheaply if you use the offset bushes.

personally I have the midori arms and don't have any problem with them, but I'm about to try out the noltec ones so I'll let you know what they are like.

[evil_weevil]

great replies guys appreciate the replies

[Duncan]

But as was said....extra camber is a disaster for street tyre wear, they can often have too much already once you lower them a bit.

Do the sway bars and caster kit first I reckon

[djr81]

  Duncan said:

But as was said....extra camber is a disaster for street tyre wear, they can often have too much already once you lower them a bit.

Do the sway bars and caster kit first I reckon

The thing that caught my eye was that he was talking about track days once a month. That sort of regime will punish the tyres much harder on the track than on the road. Hence the suggestion of doing the camber first.

Edit: gees, I wish I could spell.

Edited February 15, 2007 by djr81

[BHDave]

you should get firefox. It spell checks for you

Seeing as we are now talking about sway bars, I'd have to agree that of everything i've done it has made the biggest diffence to the cornering of my car (with the possible exception of running semi slicks)

[djr81]

  BHDave said:

you should get firefox. It spell checks for you

Seeing as we are now talking about sway bars, I'd have to agree that of everything i've done it has made the biggest diffence to the cornering of my car (with the possible exception of running semi slicks)

Work computer. But I probably should have paid attention at school too.

For me the biggest difference was new dampers. Just a different world. Sway bars weren't that huge for me.

[salad]

Dampers do a lot, but they're probably not the most cost effective method of improving handling as good dampers aren't cheap. Swaybars however, are quite cheap and I also found that they did quite a bit in improving handling.

[dead32]

out of the guys mentioning that sway bars did the most for dollar amount, who is using what brand and sway bar thickness? oh plz state gts-t or gtr r32/33 etc.