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Looking For More Power On Stock Rb25det Internals

Fujiwara

By Fujiwara,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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Fujiwara Proficient

Fujiwara

Posted
Posted (edited)

I have some questions for the experts and even for the not so expert people here.

And before you flame me, yes i have searched but the only thread that is similar to mine is http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=174833

I currently have a HKS POD, Blitz Boost Controller, Trust Oil Cooler, Trust Front mount intercooler.

First question. How much power can the stock engine handle safely and reliably?

I am hearing i can achieve figured of 280kw at the wheels reliably and safely.

Is this true? Also, does the internals of the engine dictate how much psi/bar of boost i can run?

I'm currently thinking of a Trust PE II Turbo Back exhaust + Power FC + catch can (should i get a baffled catch can?)

The above will DEFINITELY be done within the coming weeks. :laughing-smiley-014:

And i was planning to get a new turbo, but the workshop i was speaking to said that i should just hi-flow the turbo?

Is this a good idea? Because that is going to cost me roughly $2300. Isn't it better just to get a new turbo?

And will i need a external wastegate and manifold when i get a new turbo? Or can i get turbos which bolt on to the standard manifold?

If you think i can get a new turbo and not bother with the hi-flowing of the turbo, could you recommend me turbos that can acheive this amount of power with minimal lag? I also don't want the turbo to die out top end...I know i'm asking for much ;)

I also realise that i may need a Z32 AFM when i get this done. Should i also fit a Tomei Head gasket while i am at this? What thickness do i need (there are two thicknesses i'm talking about 87mm or 87mm, and the 1.2mm - 1.5mm thickness)

Will i also need new coils and/or sprockets? <--- i have no idea what these are and what they do.

later on down the track, i'm planning to get 800cc injectors, fuel rail, bosch 044 fuel pump (unless it is too loud, in which case i'll go walbro or Nismo), better spark plugs and a fuel regulator.

Is there a need for me to get a surge tank setup? How much extra would this cost if i go the surge tank route?

Is what i am suggesting realistically achievable? Or will i need to work on the motor to achieve 280kw at the wheels? What is the max (safely and reliably) i should go before working on the engine?

I presume if i do work on the engine it should be pistons, rings, cams with a port and polishing? (btw, what are poncams?)

Anything i have left out?

Sorry for being such a noob. :D

Feel free to :nyaanyaa: me if i have said anything stupid~

Cheers~

Edited by Fujiwara
R31Nismoid Grand Master

R31Nismoid

Posted
Posted
And i was planning to get a new turbo, but the workshop i was speaking to said that i should just hi-flow the turbo?

Is this a good idea? Because that is going to cost me roughly $2300. Isn't it better just to get a new turbo?

And will i need a external wastegate and manifold when i get a new turbo? Or can i get turbos which bolt on to the standard manifold?

If you think i can get a new turbo and not bother with the hi-flowing of the turbo, could you recommend me turbos that can acheive this amount of power with minimal lag? I also don't want the turbo to die out top end...I know i'm asking for much :D

Hi-flows are the best way to go IMO.

The GCG makes ~ 260rwkw. Which is spot on.

The cost closer to around $1700, not $2300, and just for informations sake, when a turbo is "hi-flowed"... Its the same a getting a new turbo.

So its not as if you are at a disadvantage.

And hence the hi-flow, you can use all the stock gear/piping etc etc. Nice and easy. Fast and cheap.

It will have the least amount of lag possible for 260rwkw really. Much more you need to setup to a larger turbo.

So adjust the aim to 260rwkw and your set.

I also realise that i may need a Z32 AFM when i get this done. Should i also fit a Tomei Head gasket while i am at this? What thickness do i need (there are two thicknesses i'm talking about 87mm or 87mm, and the 1.2mm - 1.5mm thickness)

Will i also need new coils and/or sprockets? <--- i have no idea what these are and what they do.

You wont need coil packs (splitfires) unless your current ones are dead/misfiring or otherwise in bad condition.

Your tuner will be able to tell that one easily.

Head gasket, IMO no point. Plenty of people doing it with the stock unopened motor.

later on down the track, i'm planning to get 800cc injectors, fuel rail, bosch 044 fuel pump (unless it is too loud, in which case i'll go walbro or Nismo), better spark plugs and a fuel regulator.

Is there a need for me to get a surge tank setup? How much extra would this cost if i go the surge tank route?

Aim for Nismo 550/555's, or whatever are the ones that drop into the factory rail.

Put that with a Bosch pump, you wont have a problem.

Plugs - just normal coppers gapped to around .8mm

You dont need a fuel regulator. The stock one is fine. I ran up over 330rwkw easily, stock reg. No worries.

For a street car - you wont need a surge tank. Just dont give it too much curry on a near empty tank. Sensible driving really.

Is what i am suggesting realistically achievable? Or will i need to work on the motor to achieve 280kw at the wheels? What is the max (safely and reliably) i should go before working on the engine?

As i said earlier, peg the aim back a notch to 260rwkw and a super responsive package is easily achieveable.

Motor will last for years (with a decent tune, and regular service sched etc etc).

260-280 is about the limit from what i've seen around here. The odd one makes more but most have died.

So pegging it back a bit also has some benefits to motor life.

cheers

Fujiwara Proficient

Fujiwara

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks for the info nismoid.

And 260rwkw is fine for me. FOR NOW.

Don't want to be putting down too much power anyway without working abit on suspension and brakes.

Might do some light work on braking first (pads/rotors) before the power upgrade.

Don't think i need to do much more suspension work.

Also could you advise what you meant by GCG?

And you are advising that i won't need new fuel rails, and to get the Nismo injectors (550/555cc?) instead of the 800cc injectors? Why is that may i ask?

And i won't be getting anything if i won't need them. Just with the head gasket i can pick up for cheap i think.

So if i do, could you tell me what thickness i would need?

But you're right...no point getting things just for show.

Birnie Veteran

Birnie

Posted
Posted

GCG is for GCG turbos, the name of the company :

http://www.gcg.com.au/

..and the highflow :

http://www.gcg.com.au/Catalogue_Menus/Upgr...pgrade_gtst.htm

I think Nismoid is just saying that 800cc is overkill for that power level.

Get the 550's and save heaps of cash.

Another option is the S15 injectors that I'm running now.

I'm on 240rwkws and they have hit a max of 80% duty cycle so far

If you're looking for new rotors, check the Group Buy section for some good cheap, RDA slotted rotors.

Fuel pump, the Nismo or Tomei fuel pumps are a good option.

Looking at around the $340 delivered compared to $230 for a Bosch??

But you'll have a great pump that's a straight swap out.

CHeck the DIY section for thread/pics on replacing injectors and another for the Tomei Fuel pump.

Also, there's one for swapping rotors.

Good luck dude.

Birnie

MANWHORE Grand Master

MANWHORE

Posted
Posted

Wtiht the price of brand name turbos like the HKS gtrs, i'd take that over a highflow. Shoot Ben|1981 a pm about the gcg turbos. He hasn't had a good experience with it.

A few peopel have had similar problems with other brand highflows. There appears to be a fair bit of variance in what you can get.

Strik3r Experienced

Strik3r

Posted
Posted

if you want something a bit cheaper turbo wise, sliding performance high flows will set you back ~$900 (trade in of your old turbo) and many people have gotten up to 260rwkw with supporting mods. Check out the SAU traders section.

R31Nismoid Grand Master

R31Nismoid

Posted
Posted
And you are advising that i won't need new fuel rails, and to get the Nismo injectors (550/555cc?) instead of the 800cc injectors? Why is that may i ask?

You dont need fuel rails, stock is fine.

And also 800cc is overkill. No point.

Might aswell get injectors suited to the job, same as the turbo really. No point getting a 1500hp turbo to make 260rwkw :D

msnismo Grand Master

msnismo

Posted
Posted
if you want something a bit cheaper turbo wise, sliding performance high flows will set you back ~$900 (trade in of your old turbo) and many people have gotten up to 260rwkw with supporting mods. Check out the SAU traders section.

I have 263rwkw @16-17psi on a slide high flow... but its at its limits. We did manage 278rwkw ringing its neck on the dyno. I have supporting mods with stock internals:

CAI system, s/steel intake, turbo back exhaust, splitfires, greddy plenum, 90mm TB, 550 injectors, FPR, Walbro 255, Cam gear, FMIC, Oil cooler, Aftermarket ECU running MAP sensor, Profec E-01. Still running standard fuel rail though... My mods were aimed at higher power though and some possibly not necessary to achieve the 260rwkw!

Car is currently undergoing a slightly bigger turbo :) , ext gate (plumbed back not screamer), 6 boost manifold and cam shafts.... whilst a spare engine is currently going through a forged rebuild in anticipation of the big bang.....lol .... although during the track day the car had no blow by (well the tiniest amount smaller than 5c) ..... might last longer than anticipated! Compression & leakdown been down on the weekend hopefully.

Forged Experienced

Forged

Posted
Posted
And 260rwkw is fine for me. FOR NOW.

Don't want to be putting down too much power anyway without working abit on suspension and brakes.

Might do some light work on braking first (pads/rotors) before the power upgrade.

Don't think i need to do much more suspension work.

Also could you advise what you meant by GCG?

And you are advising that i won't need new fuel rails, and to get the Nismo injectors (550/555cc?) instead of the 800cc injectors? Why is that may i ask?

And i won't be getting anything if i won't need them. Just with the head gasket i can pick up for cheap i think.

So if i do, could you tell me what thickness i would need?

But you're right...no point getting things just for show.

You wont need most of the stuff you've said above.

get the

Trust PE II Turbo Back exhaust + Power FC + catch can
you were planning

plus z32 afm

highflow turbo

any one of the fuel pumps mentioned

no fpr or rail needed

even nismo 480cc bolt on injectors would be fine for 250-260rwkw

dont worry about headgasket, might be cheap to get but not cheap to put in. you dont need it anyway.

and just spend rest of money on suspension and brakes.

Jaron Contributor

Jaron

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hey guys,

I am too a little unfamiliar with all this information, I know what most things are, what they do, but don't know where to start to upgrade my 33 (s2) gtst to get a little more horsepower. I'll list what I had in mind and some advice would be great...

Currently I believe the engine is stock, though it has a/m blitz blow off, blitz pod intake and some Jap 3" stainless exhaust.

I was thinking of installing the following...

1. FMIC (obviously) Is there any real big issue with the cheaper ones if I'm only want around 230-250rwkw??? I had in mind using a Hybrid on eBay -->

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Hybrid-Nissan-Skyli...1QQcmdZViewItem

2. Turbo - after reading this above thread, it seems to me that I should exchange my current stock turbo with a rebuilt "highflow" turbo of the same type - yes???

3. Injectors - Upgrade to Nismo 550CC - yes???

4. Fuel pump - Upgrade to Bosch, Nismo or Tomei

5. ECU - Apexi Power FC + boost controller

6. Clutch - (mine is stuffed, slips when I load it) so upgrading to Exedy Heavy Duty Organic Clutch kit

Then a really good dyno tune...

So with this sort of configuration, does everyone seem to think I'll acheive a nice output... and is there anything else I should consider???

Another few things that I'm unsure on are plenums, high mounts and screamer pipes.

Is there any advantage to upgrading the plenum or going to high mount turbo config???

I saw this Plenum on ebay, (besides looking nice) any opinions on these???

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...p;rd=1&rd=1

And what advantages do I get from the screamer pipes/dump pipes???

Thanks guys and girls...

Edited by Jaron
R31Nismoid Grand Master

R31Nismoid

Posted
Posted

Best advise Jaron

Read this thread:

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=66556

And then all the info threads within it. It will arm you with plenty of basic knowledge, what works, what does not etc etc :)

Fujiwara Proficient

Fujiwara

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

thanks for all the info guys.

Most likely get TBE, PFC, 550cc injectors, Tomei/Nismo fuel pump, Z32 AFM.

As for the turbo....Might get something that will be a direct bolt on with more potential than a hi-flow.

Saves me spending alot more later.

If you can help...please comment on http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=176342

Once again, thanks for all the help!!!

Now time for me to spend spend spend!!!

Edited by Fujiwara
Fujiwara Proficient

Fujiwara

Posted
  • Author
Posted
hks 25/35 would b a good option - minimal lag n good for street use

direct bolt on?

Tried to search BD4's and HKSUSA site...but doesn't have the vehicle application sheet :)

And also has something PSI output...

WHAT THE HELL IS THAT!!!??? :)

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