Turbo vs Turbo

[Horus]

What are the advantages/ disadvantages of turbos with ceramic turbines, as opposed to the advantages/disadvantages of steel turbine turbos?

[skylineakt]

I got told ceramic turbo spools up quicker than steel turbo, but can't be boosted as high as the steel turbo.

Steel turbo are more durable than ceramic turbo if you are intend to run high boost.

[Horus]

...But dont ceramic turbos handle the excess heat of being boosted up better than steel turbos?

[JimX]

Handle in what way? Either the turbo is going to be fine or it's going to break, and steel wheels are generally ok with any temperatures most engines can dish out. There may be some exceptions (I don't know anything about the old Formula 1 turbos, for example), but some turbos can get so hot the steel casing itself glows but still remains intact.

The big killer for normal ceramic turbos is too much boost/speed and steel doesn't have this problem.

[skylineakt]

Don't know about the heat regarding the ceramic and the steel turbo. But I read that if you boost ceramic turbo too high, it can disconnect the blade from the shaft.

[funkymonkey]

Ask sam (Dr Drift)... he was showing one of the custs at BMT the pros n cons of ceramic and ball bearing turbos.

I think ceramic turbo = better response at lower RPM, reduced top end performance, can be rebuilt.

steel ball bearing turbo = better response at higher RPM, reduced low end response, cannot be rebuilt.

The 300zx overcame this problem by having one ceramic and another steel. not a bad setup if you ask me.

[macka]

hes not talking about ceramic bearing turbo againsnt ball bearing he is talking about ceramic turbine blade compared to steel turbine blade....

wouldnt be so harsh if u didnt dis da r33 funky

[Horus]

its beginning to clear up for me....thanx guys, If you are wondering why I would ponder such things its because

1. I wish to further my understanding of turbos

2. To decide on whether to keep the stock turbos in the r34 Im getting....but from what you guys have said, Ill prolly wack on a pair of hks 2540s

[JimX]

The ceramic turbo will be fine as long as you don't run more than about 12-14psi. If you want to go beyond that then steel is in order.

[Cubes]

What kills a ceramic turbo is mainly:

1 - Overspeeding.

2 - Excessive Heat.

Overspeading occurs when you run to much boost. I have seen a few R32's now running 16psi on the standard turbo and I have also been doing this for some time now with no problems 'YET'.

I have heard of one R33 Running 16psi of boost with a powerfc and apparently making 210-220rwkw with no problems.

However the turbo's will be fine for street use and hang in there but if you slap it on the track and do a few hard laps the heat will get in the turbo and seperate the ceramic exhaust wheel from its shaft.

So if you want to use it for street use - R33 14psi is safe and for a R32 15psi is safe.

However if you slap a RB25DET Turbo on a RB20DET it doesn't have to spin as hard to flow as much air hence it creates more boost with less turbo rpm speed. So you can push the turbo a little harder.. In Japan apparently it is not uncommon for a R33 Turbo to be running 1.2bar on a RB20DET.

So it appears to be Heat that is the main killer or excessive boost detonation that throws a bit of crap from your spark plug in to the fragile exhaust wheel and bang.....

[Bl4cK32]

The previous owner of my car (R32 gtst) had the standard turbo high flowed, machined, with new internals, which is now running 16psi. I was told by him when, or if, I decide to put a metal head gasket on, it will be capable of running 19psi.

How much rwkw/hp would this turbo be capable of? I dunno the specs of the internals sorry, not much of a tech head. I was looking for approx. ~250 - 275 rwkw when im finished with the car, would this turbo suit, or what would be a good upgrade?

[MM2death]

Originally posted by Bl4cK32

The previous owner of my car (R32 gtst) had the standard turbo high flowed, machined, with new internals, which is now running 16psi. I was told by him when, or if, I decide to put a metal head gasket on, it will be capable of running 19psi.  

How much rwkw/hp would this turbo be capable of? I dunno the specs of the internals sorry, not much of a tech head. I was looking for approx. ~250 - 275 rwkw when im finished with the car, would this turbo suit, or what would be a good upgrade?

I don't think the standard turbo is capable of much over 180rwkw.

Scott.

[Bl4cK32]

so what would be a good turbo to upgrade to get to 250-275 rwkw?

[Horus]

hmmm thanx for the further info guys,

btw, ralph says "I bent my wookie", not "I broke my wookie"

[Cubes]

Originally posted by Bl4cK32

so what would be a good turbo to upgrade to get to 250-275 rwkw?

You really are pushing shiet up hill trying to make 250-275rwkw with a RB20DET. If you were using it for the drags with am AUTO, Stally and slicks it would be ok but for the street your will get your arse wipped by 200rwkw GTS-T's all da every day.

its not all about peak power its about mid range power as that is what gets you to your peak power. If you havn't got good mid range power its going to take you longer to get to your peak power.

If you are looking at around 260rwkw a GCG Stage 2 500hp turbo will do it but you will either have to go for a RB25DET or rebuild a RB30DET. A RB30DET with standard internals that will handle 260rwkw providing the tuning is good & will set you back around 2.5 - 3K just for the rebuild and parts. Then you have to fit it.

The stage 2 turbo on the RB30 makes full boost by 3000rpm & RB25 Full boost by 3500rpm and pulls to 7000rpm making 260rwkw. A Hell of a lot better than a RB20DET making 240-250rwkw with full boost coming on at around 5000rpm. Which realistically is where you would be looking at for that type of power from a RB20DET. The RB20DET head is a restriction and holds back power.

[bbenny]

Is it really necessary to fit a metal headgasket to run 19psi? I have read that if the car is tuned correctly you should be able to run that sort of boost with the standard gasket.

I was just wondering because i was planning to run about 19psi with a standard headgasket... anyone done it before?

btw i think those highflowed RB20 turbos can flow up to 220rwkw.

[Cubes]

Bl4cK32

What IC Are you running and the turbo, was it rebuild by Dynamic Turbo Charges was it? Or even better did you buy the car from a Mark Schipper?

I have heard of 19psi being run on a RB20 some years ago. He was on www.skylinesdownunder.com his alias or name was WDRACING. He also had to use Alcohol injection or somthing to make it reliable. He was running a To4 and ran a 12.

it would have been around 2 years ago i'd say.

[Bl4cK32]

You got me there Joel. Seems you know more about my car than me.

Just explorin a few avenues to upgrade path. So tell me what can I do to get some more balls to this fine car the previous owner has sold me.....

[Steve]

Originally posted by Horus

its beginning to clear up for me....thanx guys, If you are wondering why I would ponder such things its because

1. I wish to further my understanding of turbos

2. To decide on whether to keep the stock turbos in the r34 Im getting....but from what you guys have said, Ill prolly wack on a pair of hks 2540s

I wouldnt personally use the 2540s - they tend to be more of a drag setup, as they lack midrange. 2530s would haul - if you do a bit of a search, the 2540 vs 2530 has been discussed a bit on this forum - by people who have experimented with both, and 2530 wins hands down for twin setup.

R34s (from memory) also use a nylon impeller, which is a bit more of a limiting factor, but on GTR, alot of guys seem to run over 1 bar with out too many dramas - bit different if you are running a single setup on gts.