Clutch Housing Explosion (and Calatoral Damage)

[Guilt-Toy]

i have a full monte race clutch and have had no issues with it. When we put it in the car we were missing the clutch bolts and used normal hi ten 8.8 bolts from repco.

When i spoke to Jim about this he told me to take them off and replace them with standard nissan items, this was done the next weekend because all clutch's have to be installed correctly with the correct gear otherwise you can end up old mate here did.

I am going to push my car to 550hp to rear wheels and go to power cruise. I am sure now the clutch is installed right, the dowles are soo chunky and sturdy its not funny.

I cant believe your baging these clutch's out so bad. Why would you do that?

[The Dan]

i have a full monte race clutch and have had no issues with it. When we put it in the car we were missing the clutch bolts and used normal hi ten 8.8 bolts from repco.

When i spoke to Jim about this he told me to take them off and replace them with standard nissan items, this was done the next weekend because all clutch's have to be installed correctly with the correct gear otherwise you can end up old mate here did.

I am going to push my car to 550hp to rear wheels and go to power cruise. I am sure now the clutch is installed right, the dowles are soo chunky and sturdy its not funny.

I cant believe your baging these clutch's out so bad. Why would you do that?

Not bagging them out moreso than a warning to others about the dangers of using ANY clutch that has a non-nodular pressure plate.

Jim just happens to use second hand parts for his Full Monty clutches. He sometimes may use the newer exedy covers which are all made from nodular cast iron but most of the ones he builds is using the old seco or nissin(I think that's the manufacturer) covers.

These old covers are a plain cast iron which will shatter when stressed too much.

It's the same as RB30 flywheels. They have a groove around them that the skyline ones don't (easiest way to identify them) and they are also a non-nodular cast iron. These will shatter also.

You have been warned. Take this information and use it however you wish.

I'm not saying Jim can't build a clutch as he is a genius in his work. The second hand parts, in this case, do let him down though.

[Guilt-Toy]

so why do you care so much to bag these clutch's out ? what do you have to do with them ?

How about the thousands of clutch's that Jim has built over the last what 20 years or more? where is the Mount clutch explosion everest of clutch parts from these explosions?

I think you need to tone your shit down a bit and think about what your saying here.

I know ppl who have tortured these clutch's with countless 500awkw side steps and no issues at all.

What your saying sounds like BS. imho

[R31Nismoid]

4 pages and no mention of a claim being made... Why?

Workshops have insurance for certain failures and that kinda thing in certain circumstances!

Surely if so much damage was done, so much money lost... that a claim would be made very early on and probably resolved by now?

Shit happens, see it all the time, one dead something doesnt mean the world stopped turning.

[Swiper the Fox]

4 pages and no mention of a claim being made... Why?

Workshops have insurance for certain failures and that kinda thing in certain circumstances!

Surely if so much damage was done, so much money lost... that a claim would be made very early on and probably resolved by now?

Shit happens, see it all the time, one dead something doesnt mean the world stopped turning.

Yes...Im amazed that all the allegations that are made toward Jim and his product and cannot understand why no claim has been made against him or his business.

I suggest there is more to this than what people on here are willing to admit and/or accept. Im choosing my words carefully as to not comprimise any further action that may be taken.

Edited January 23, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[phunky_monkey]

Can anyone tell me what the protective blankets that you wrap around the bellhousing are called?

[Swiper the Fox]

Can anyone tell me what the protective blankets that you wrap around the bellhousing are called?

Ballistic Blanket

[phunky_monkey]

Thanks for that

[benm]

The first mod that should be done to a performance car

[The Dan]

so why do you care so much to bag these clutch's out ? what do you have to do with them ?

How about the thousands of clutch's that Jim has built over the last what 20 years or more? where is the Mount clutch explosion everest of clutch parts from these explosions?

I think you need to tone your shit down a bit and think about what your saying here.

I know ppl who have tortured these clutch's with countless 500awkw side steps and no issues at all.

What your saying sounds like BS. imho

Well I know of a car that was written off and two other clutch explosions aside from this one to begin with.

What do I have to do with them? It's one of my good friends who nearly lost his life because of it. So maybe tone your shit down and listen to what is being said.

Read the post again if you have to...or get someone else to read it to you, it may sound different the second time.

4 pages and no mention of a claim being made... Why?

Workshops have insurance for certain failures and that kinda thing in certain circumstances!

Surely if so much damage was done, so much money lost... that a claim would be made very early on and probably resolved by now?

Shit happens, see it all the time, one dead something doesnt mean the world stopped turning.

Noel did persue it with Jim and Jim's words were:

"There is no such thing as an antiburst pressure plate and clutch cover"

"These mechanics you are talking to don't know what they are talking about"

"Every other clutch builder in the country is just jealous of me"

Jim told Noel a few other things but you will have to get him to tell you that.

I have seen the clutch. I have seen 3 or 4 others. They all use second hand parts. NOT ALL COVERS HAVE NON-NODULAR CAST IRON PRESSURE PLATES IN THEM.

I have no doubt there are many that go out with the antiburst cover and pressure plate but in THIS case it did not.

These are FACTS, you can choose to listen or not. I'm not bagging his clutches but there is a safety issue that need to be addressed. People's lives are certainly at risk. All it takes is one to go the wrong way and it's someone's death on his hands.

[Swiper the Fox]

Well I know of a car that was written off and two other clutch explosions aside from this one to begin with.

What do I have to do with them? It's one of my good friends who nearly lost his life because of it. So maybe tone your shit down and listen to what is being said.

Read the post again if you have to...or get someone else to read it to you, it may sound different the second time.

Noel did persue it with Jim and Jim's words were:

"There is no such thing as an antiburst pressure plate and clutch cover"

"These mechanics you are talking to don't know what they are talking about"

"Every other clutch builder in the country is just jealous of me"

Jim told Noel a few other things but you will have to get him to tell you that.

I have seen the clutch. I have seen 3 or 4 others. They all use second hand parts. NOT ALL COVERS HAVE NON-NODULAR CAST IRON PRESSURE PLATES IN THEM.

I have no doubt there are many that go out with the antiburst cover and pressure plate but in THIS case it did not.

These are FACTS, you can choose to listen or not. I'm not bagging his clutches but there is a safety issue that need to be addressed. People's lives are certainly at risk. All it takes is one to go the wrong way and it's someone's death on his hands.

If you are such an expert in clutch cover plates then why did you even fit the clutch to Noel's car that you now amazingly regard as a timebomb?...potentially placing his personal safety and the integrity of his car at risk.

Ever heard the song "Monday's experts" http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=7cAvDgqKYbQ ...its about people who are the know it all after something occurs...it takes actual talent to predict these things beforehand. With you now being the all knowing all seeing master of clutches is cold comfort after you fitted what you now think is such a dangerous product. My 'correctly fitted' Jim Berry clutch copped more treatment than Noel was ever going to throw at his and its still happily spinning around in Razor$sharp's car to this day. Along with all the other clutches he builds for Dean Herridge, Jim Richard's, Dick Johnson, the late great Possum Bourne and countless other big hitters in the motorsport world.

Edited January 23, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[Nismo_Boy]

Having used a JB clutch in my 10 second S13 and never having an issue hearing and seeing what happened to Noel was a surprise.

I think regardless of what’s been posted in here it’s something people now should be aware of.

If you’re running these sorts of power, get the right cover.

I love all you forum lawyers as well; do any of you actually have any idea what it would cost to get this into court? Not to mention the time it would take? It’s easier, less stressful and most of all cheaper to walk away from the situation and write it off as an educational lesion.

[The Dan]

If you are such an expert in clutch cover plates then why did you even fit the clutch to Noel's car that you now amazingly regard as a timebomb?...potentially placing his personal safety and the integrity of his car at risk.

Ever heard the song "Monday's experts" http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=7cAvDgqKYbQ ...its about people who are the know it all after something occurs...it takes actual talent to predict these things beforehand. With you now being the all knowing all seeing master of clutches is cold comfort after you fitted what you now think is such a dangerous product. My 'correctly fitted' Jim Berry clutch copped more treatment than Noel was ever going to throw at his and its still happily spinning around in Razor$sharp's car to this day. Along with all the other clutches he builds for Dean Herridge, Jim Richard's, Dick Johnson, the late great Possum Bourne and countless other big hitters in the motorsport world.

I think you are mis-interpreting my comments also. I will clarify again.

Jim Berry is an awesome clutch builder.

His clutches are used worldwide or at least nationwide in many high profile cars without problem.

I'm not sure of the statistics but maybe 99% of his clutches go out with the correct material present in the cover

I'm not slagging him or his business in any way as I am fully aware of his skill.

The clutch fitted to Noels car was made from SECOND HAND PARTS and he used a non-nodular pressure plate.

Clearly this could be one of the 1% of clutches that leave in such a way.

Then to add to all of that, I never fitted the clutch. I do, however, know the people who did. I know the clutch was fitted with the correct items in your list as I checked with Noel and the other fitter prior to posting my comment.

I don't really care what any of you think of me for saying any of this. The FACT is that it happened. It happened as a result of using inferior quality parts and that can be PROVEN. Noel has chosen not to persue it as Jim talked his way out of it in a personal conversation with Noel. This conversation included the comments 'There is no such thing as an anti-burst clutch cover'. Noel declined my offer to attend a meeting with Jim on the matter as Noel is a little out of his depth in this area. He declined because he was of the opinion it would get us nowhere.

If even one life is saved as a result of me making people aware of the dangers, then I can continue living my life without wondering if I could have helped prevent it.

I AM NOT SAYING DON'T BUY A JIM BERRY CLUTCH. HE MAKES SOME OF THE BEST CLUTCHES ON THE PLANET.

JUST CHECK YOUR CLUTCH TO MAKE SURE THE MATERIALS IN IT ARE SATISFACTORY FOR THE JOB.

And if anyone wants to come at me with so called slander accusations, I will get two reputable clutch companies to confirm what I am saying is correct. One of them pulls apart full monties with second hand parts on a regular basis.

Can everyone stop be naive and do some research on clutch explosions and non-nodular clutch pressure plates? It is a real danger.

[FineLine]

If you are such an expert in clutch cover plates then why did you even fit the clutch to Noel's car that you now amazingly regard as a timebomb?...potentially placing his personal safety and the integrity of his car at risk.

Ever heard the song "Monday's experts" http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=7cAvDgqKYbQ ...its about people who are the know it all after something occurs...it takes actual talent to predict these things beforehand. With you now being the all knowing all seeing master of clutches is cold comfort after you fitted what you now think is such a dangerous product. My 'correctly fitted' Jim Berry clutch copped more treatment than Noel was ever going to throw at his and its still happily spinning around in Razor$sharp's car to this day. Along with all the other clutches he builds for Dean Herridge, Jim Richard's, Dick Johnson, the late great Possum Bourne and countless other big hitters in the motorsport world.

Knock yaself out there dirt man. Sorry but the knife you are trying to twist in Dan's ribs aint sharp enough to cut through his singlet.

Dan DID NOT fit said clutch to my car.

Michael Oshea of signature performance DID fit the clutch to my car

Both Dan and Micheal advised me (independant of each other) To avoid this clutch at all costs. More fool me for listening to fan boiz on this forum rather than taking advice from the 2 mechanics I actually trust to build and tune my car.

Both Dan and Michael do this for a living, They are not part timers, Dan has spent several years in a brake and clutch specific workshops dealing in all aspects of said field from grannys lazer to hipo applications.

Michael is the proprietor of signature performance specialising in some tuff track cars as well as general high performance import work.

Either of these guys have fited more clutches than you have had hot dinners Paul.

What are your qualifications.

[R33S2]

hmmm who looks like a monday expert now eh?

[Raysboostin]

so why do you care so much to bag these clutch's out ? what do you have to do with them ?

How about the thousands of clutch's that Jim has built over the last what 20 years or more? where is the Mount clutch explosion everest of clutch parts from these explosions?

I think you need to tone your shit down a bit and think about what your saying here.

I know ppl who have tortured these clutch's with countless 500awkw side steps and no issues at all.

What your saying sounds like BS. imho

i think you should read things a little more carefully before you attack someone like that. not once reading any of his posts did he say anything bad about mr berry. all i got from what he said was that everyone should be aware of inferior 2nd hand clutch parts. im sure mr berry does build some of the best clutches in the country, but again the quality of the parts used is the key factor. im willing to guess that the "big hitters" that DIRTgarage mentioned would have used the best parts money can buy. which has nothing to do with what 3lit3 32 is saying.

maybe you do know ppl that have used his clutches to 500awkw but are they using the same type of inferior 2nd hand parts?? even if they are how can you tell when its going to fail?? it may last 10 times longer than the one that is pictured on the 1st page, but are you willing to risk your life and the life of any front seat passengers on it?? that may sound extreme but sadly its a realistic senario.

im not questioning mr berry's skills or saying not to use his products. but i am saying, do your research and make sure the parts you send him are up to the task. it may cost a bit more to be sure, but the cost of it all going horribly wrong could be even greater.

[Swiper the Fox]

Knock yaself out there dirt man. Sorry but the knife you are trying to twist in Dan's ribs aint sharp enough to cut through his singlet.

Dan DID NOT fit said clutch to my car.

Michael Oshea of signature performance DID fit the clutch to my car

Both Dan and Micheal advised me (independant of each other) To avoid this clutch at all costs. More fool me for listening to fan boiz on this forum rather than taking advice from the 2 mechanics I actually trust to build and tune my car.

Both Dan and Michael do this for a living, They are not part timers, Dan has spent several years in a brake and clutch specific workshops dealing in all aspects of said field from grannys lazer to hipo applications.

Michael is the proprietor of signature performance specialising in some tuff track cars as well as general high performance import work.

Either of these guys have fited more clutches than you have had hot dinners Paul.

What are your qualifications.

no knife here Noel, i can handle myself quite well without resorting to that sort of sh1t.

When your set-up was independantly inspected by a 3rd party it was noted that only 1 locating dowel was fitted to your flywheel and that was not of correct construction to have enough shear loading. The other dowel holes had dust and dirt in them which was photographed by macro camera as clear evidence that nothing had been fitted to those particular holes. The clutch bolts themselves do not have enough shear load rating to stop the clutch from 'exiting' after it became out of balance due to the lack of loacting dowels and the one fitted which was not the made of the correct material for the job.

Jim Berry would have liked a claim made against him so all this evidence could be submitted...but you decided not to even claim against him which he didn't mind you doing as he pays his insurance to deal with people such as yourself.

OK

Edited January 24, 2009 by DiRTgarage

[T04GTR]

seems every clutch/flywheel explosion i have seen in here is involving a jim berry "modified" clutch..

dodgy batch my ass! your just lucky you had a steel flywheel!! or it would of been a benm...

sory to see that. was it a standard box? or did you have a nice gearset in it?

[T04GTR]

and regarding the nodular vs normal iron clutches, you would think that they would be checked. is there any quality control? what if that was a hollinger box :s

still having a dowl missing isnt the best way for reliability...

[FineLine]

no knife here Noel, i can handle myself quite well without resorting to that sort of sh1t.

When your set-up was independantly inspected by a 3rd party it was noted that only 1 locating dowel was fitted to your flywheel and that was not of correct construction to have enough shear loading. The other dowel holes had dust and dirt in them which was photographed by macro camera as clear evidence that nothing had been fitted to those particular holes. The clutch bolts themselves do not have enough shear load rating to stop the clutch from 'exiting' after it became out of balance due to the lack of loacting dowels and the one fitted which was not the made of the correct material for the job.

Jim Berry would have liked a claim made against him so all this evidence could be submitted...but you decided not to even claim against him which he didn't mind you doing as he pays his insurance to deal with people such as yourself.

OK

Oh you tried alright, You tried hard what with your little song links and barbs.

At least one of the other dowels you are referring to is in my shed as we speak, As for the other, Who knows. Probably among the box of shrapnel i had to clean off the track at qr or still in orbit. As for the dust and dirt. perhaps if Berry got off his arse instead of waffling the clutch may not have sat in his workshop for weeks gathering dust and dirt.

I did not and will not make a claim, The evidence is there and it speaks for itself. let him make the claim. The pressure plate according to all others except the erstwhile mr. berry is a dodgy pos. But then, What would they know. Mechanics know nothing and the other clutch makers are just jealous of him. (his own words) As an aside one of those clutch makers is very jealous of him. The way he explained it was that anyone who could con that sort of money out of the buying public for that product is a pure genius.

Theres so much more paul but hopefully we will face to face somewhere in the near future at a drag meeting or similar and i will enlighten you a little further.

As it stands for me to get satisfaction would involve litigation which i can ill afford. Thanks to good friends like dan and others the pain in the wallet has been minimalised to a degree that I can now look forward to more fun times with friends at a track or strip.

I refused his offer for a replacement clutch for reasons i will detail you in person. I can and do sleep at night knowing my hands and concience are clear and clean.