The Hoon Laws In Practice

[MLCrisis]

Hi, all. You all know about the issues we have with the "Hoon Laws". Now is your chance to do something about them. This thread is for New South Wales to gether information about the practice of the hoon laws in your state. This is what I said in the similar thread, now a sticky, in WA:

I believe that the "hoon" laws are badly drafted and give the police far too much power. They are bad law! There are sufficient laws without them. The rules of evidence are also being seriously diluted by pursuing convictions on the word of members of the public. Little old ladies phoning up to say "he was going very fast" should not constitute sufficient evidence. Hopefully it does not, but we shall see.

Populist measures are too easy for politicians, but by implementing such poorly thought out laws those politicians fail to do their duty to ensure that the laws they enact are sound. If they are not sound, they bring the whole system into disrespute. More particularly, they place the Police in the impossible position of applying those laws in an impartial manner, when their human frailty means falling short is inevitable. Hence, they themselves become undermined by the very position that these laws put them into.

I would like to compile evidence of the hoon laws in practice. So if you know of poor application of the law, inappropriate actions by police using the hoon laws, the use of questionnable evidence, or similar, please let me know via this thread and/or pm. Please only first hand experience - not "I know a bloke, who's mate's girfriend's brother".

If we compile sufficient evidence, I intend to put a submission to the Government to change the law. Let the punishment fit the crime!

If anyone else has experiences they are prepared to share, please add them on. Good experiences as well as bad. If you were done fair and square, then please say so. If the policeman was reasonable in his/her behaviour, please say so. If they were aggressive and overbearing, let us know. If you were aggressive and disrespectful, let us know. Best to have basic facts here and more detail in a pm.

Thanks everyone. Please note that I am not knocking the Police, they do a hard job that not many people would do. But a badly framed law allows them to overstep their real powers and some of them will use it - because they are not all saints!

So there you go. We need good data to support our argument. We need information in each state to fight this, as no state government will want to go it alone in repealing them.

Please be careful in what you post. This is not intended to be a thread for you to rant or argue. It is to gather facts.

Thanks guys. Go to it!!

Cheers.

[4teecal]

Unfortunately it has turned into little more than a cop bashing thread on NS with no input into your issue whatsoever.

Will that happen here?

[Kujotk]

Unfortunately it has turned into little more than a cop bashing thread on NS with no input into your issue whatsoever.

Will that happen here?

its upto the administrators to keep out the filth and give people warnings or suspensions if they continue to insight a fight or an arguement. The most of us are decent people, usually the trouble makers specifically sign up to argue, you can spot these people by being non SAU members who on their first few posts try to make an arguement or knock a group of people to start a debate.

I'm pretty sure the admins will keep a close eye on what is said in the NSW section, they always do.

offcorse there will be some "cop bashing" when people are frustrated, but i'm sure it will be better tastefull than NS

also can't believe you compared us to NS in the first place, should get a warning for that lol jkz

[eeiko321]

well since you mentioned in WA....

what about NSW..is there anything happening here?

[MLCrisis]

Thanks, guys. Your sentiments are appreciated. This is a difficult topic to keep on track, as illustrated by the experience elsewhere!

Thanks for the help.

Cheers.

[MLCrisis]

Firstly, my apologies for not checking up on this thread for a while!! I realise that the laws are different from state to state and that NSW may not have the same issues - yet. The point is that the various versions of these laws around Australia all share the same key characteristic - that they are fundamentally unjust and unsound and represent an attack on civil liberties. I have no doubt that many young drivers, whatever their ride, are irresponsible and need to be brought to book in some way. However, the standard laws already on the statute, for dangerous driving, reckless driving, etc. present sufficient means for that, without the imposition of laws that allow unfettered discretion to the boys in blue.

I would add that I am unable to spend the time checking threads in each state's area (daft idea, really) so I will leave this thread to those in NSW who care to think about the matter. Perhaps there are some amongst you who will appreciate the greater issue, see it as something worth fighting for and take that fight on in your own way.

Cheers.

[The Bogan]

The laws will remain and/or get even tougher because of idiots drifting around roundabouts or boosting down 50kph streets, its not just imports, the holden and ford guys are just as bad, my fav at the moment is the guy in his stocko camry who is either on the gas or on the brake, the sooner he takes himself out the better the world will be.

As a father Im all for crushing cars of idiots who do stupid shit on the street, Im not talking about doing 10kph over the speed limit but 100kph in a 50kph area.

If they just killed themself I wouldnt care but they kill passengers and pedestrians.

[MLCrisis]

As a father Im all for crushing cars of idiots who do stupid shit on the street, Im not talking about doing 10kph over the speed limit but 100kph in a 50kph area.

If they just killed themself I wouldnt care but they kill passengers and pedestrians.

And, if you will forgive me, that is the problem with these laws. They present a populist "solution" to a problem that, in the main, is a social nuisance, but also has elements that endanger innocent bystanders. The problem is the way they are enacted. They give too much discretionary power to the policeman on the spot. You are guilty until you are proven innocent and, in most instances, it is almost impossible to prove your innocence because it is your word against a policeman - and naturally the policeman is going to demonstrate he was correct.

So I agree that the idiots who drive dangerously should be taken off the road. But that should happen in a way that is just, has appropriate judicial oversight and safeguards and provides punishment that is in proportion to the crime.

Cheers.

[CARSICK]

Hypothetical scenario...

Hoon gets picked up doing his thingy

Cop tells him to hoon on the track>

Judge tells him to hoon on the track>

Record states he's been told 2X to hoon on the track>

Hoon's car gets confiscated for a month if it's his car + Fine + Points/Loss of Lic.

Hoon gets picked up again>

Judge reviews his record>

Car gets confiscated and sold off; and proceeds go to road upgrades.

[MBS206]

The only people I've heard of, who have had issues, deserved it. They were known to the police, had a history of idiodic driving etc etc.

Secondly, the police can pull you over, book you for neg, wreckless driving, speeding etc, and do you know the funny part, they might book you for neg driving, speeding and not wearing a seatbelt and that gives them enough points for some people to loose their licence for 6 odd months (Sometimes more!)... The Hilarious part... The fact that the copper then just has to walk away, and joe blow idiot is free to rip a skid and take off up the street and keep going LEGALLY for another month or two...

It is only in the VERY rare instances that Police can and will confiscate a licence on the spot. If they take the car away, for most people it makes it ALOT harder for them to do this.

So car gone for a month, can't drive, then loss of licence for 3 - 6 months, hopefully if they're smart enough (Most aren't) they won't drive, so it frees the roads up for 4 to 7 months.

Also, the only time I had an over bearing/aggressive copper was when I was caught well and truly over the speed limit, he went all "you were going real fast back there, how fast do you reckon you were going" and I went on the defensive of "I don't know"... Only time I had an issue. The last time I got caught I handed over my licence, apologised, he handed licence and fine back and I was on my way. (Minus 8 points and a chunk of my pay... Damn double demerits!)

The time before that, which could well have ended in a car confiscation ended up with nothing more then a warning as I was polite and upfront. (I could have been booked at 30+ over the limit as I even said a speed to the officer and he let me go after a quick check of my tyres and licence.

Only those whom deserve it, and those who give the coppers hell from what I've seen and heard appear to have these issues.