Wolf 3D V4 vs PowerFC

[Sydneykid]

Yes Steve, that's true'ish but then the even more pedantic would say if you want to run no AFM's then a Power FC Djetro is even more P&P than a Wolf.

But even I am not that pedantic.............

[N I B]

Well knockers GTS t VSPECS GTS with its Wolf ran 431.6rwhp at PAS Western Salon today inc its factory injectors and the guys that run the Dyno don't get along with me so theirs no favours.

WOLF PLUGINS ROCK. Get a PFC on a standard BR25 motor and injectors to run these numbers Mr Sydneykid as a plugin without changing airflow meters etc,Don't think you can do you?

[Bl4cK32]

Hey thats right. Changing to a Power FC usually means changing to the z32. Not plug and play now is it.....(By Sydneykid's definition, no offence)

Good point Steve-sst. Bring on the comments

[Penfold]

Erm I think its probably a credit to the injectors physically supplying enough fuel more than anything else. Did we actually have a look at the fuel rail to check they were standard? Anywhose it with the standard injectors, I wouldnt mind finding out how exactly the wolf was squeezing the fuel out compared to tuning with a powerfc. Any ideas?

[Cubes]

What sort of fuel pressure is he running?

[N I B]

They are standard injectors and i think the Wolf has better drivers because i've had power FCs go 100% duty at much lower HP.When Paul go's inside we can see how far we can get the Injectors but we have a lot left as i have this car very rich to try and save the cast pistons.

[51jay]

if you ever want to sell those injectors let me know, Mine was maxing out the injectors at 290rwhp at 1.5bar and I do have aftermarket fuel pump and regulator.....EMS Duelsport

[N I B]

We have many WA cars making 300+ rwhp but have never had to go to 1.5 bar so you may need a better turbo.

[JimX]

Why is it such a crippling blow to have to upgrade your AFM? And besides that, there was a guy here with a 300rwkw R33 (I think it was Mattlowth) who was using the factory AFM. Tuning the car past the AFM's resolution isn't impossible, just more difficult.

I'd like to say "POWER FC'S ROCK" to keep it even, but then we'd getting into that whole "My dad can beat up your dad" thing

[Steve]

JimX the big problem with AFMs is that you can only tune at one boost pressure after you have reached max voltage.

If you have 5.1V at 0.8 bar, then tune the car at 1.2bar, when (if)you turn the boost down the ecu doesnt know the difference between 1.2bar and 0.8 bar or anywhere inbetween, so it will keep fueling at 1.2bar - the problems there are pretty obvious.

[N I B]

Changing AFMs is no big deal just like plugging in a MAP sensor is no big deal, remember Sydneykids argument came down to such a big deal as this.Map sensor tubing costs $1.50 a meter Z32 AFMs cost $300 up 2nd hand.

[the phantom]

I think a bit more scrutiny is required in what exactly injector duty cycle means in batch and sequential systems before one can suggest "better drivers". Correct me if I missed a detail in the previous posts, but the Wolf still has 4 injector drivers??...meaning that 2 cyclinders in a six must be squirted at once? If this isn't the case then you can just ignore the remainder!!!

I haven't tested and confirmed what I'm about to suggest, but I would guess both Sydneykid and Steve-SST can confirm or deny. In a sequential system 100% duty does not mean the injector remains open until the next time it is commanded to squirt. Rather, 100% duty means that the injection time has fully occupied the time available when the inlet valve is open. The former would render a sequential system a batch system, would it not?

Is the 430 odd rwhp mentioned a result of standard injectors being batch fired rather than sequential, therfore allowing more fuel to be squirted in and just 'hanging' around until the inlet valve opens? What was the fuel pressure, and was any 'rocket fuel' being run or was it just 98 pump. Good effort by the way!

[Steve]

Phantom, pretty sure the wolf P&P for R33 does not batch.

Better driver? wouldnt that refer to the response time?

[the phantom]

Hey Steve,

Ok, can Steve-SST confirm wether wolf P&P is batch or FULLY sequential....i.e 6 injector drivers, so we can debate knowing all the facts? I know he previously mentioned sequential ignition, but didn't stipulate for injection...or I just plain missed it somewhere.

[Sydneykid]

Hi guys, like Steve-SST, I have seen a lot of GTST's with 230 rwkw (305 rwhp) on standard injectors. They need a fuel pump upgrade and fuel pressure increase <10%, via an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, to get there though.

But we are talking another 95 rwkw (125 rwhp) here, that's 40% more than I have seen on standard injectors. I have also (previously) checked with some of my contacts in Japan and they don't believe the 300 rwhp we regularly get on our 98 octane. This will blow them away.

I remain perplexed.........

[GTS-t VSPEC]

I'm definately only running BP98, and the base fuel pressure is 50psi on a Malpassi rising rate regulator. It's the standard fuel rail aswell.

[the phantom]

The dynopac dyno is a direct drive hub dyno is it not?....Are we not comparing apples and oranges again??? I dont mean to get the absolute power dyno debate going, but without the tyre/roller loss surely numbers are inconsistant. Not meaning to take anything away from the outstanding result, just trying to understand these numbers. Also, on the "411 from stock internals" thread it is mentioned that the standard injectors are running 40PSI. Doubling the pressure would increase flow by 41%, so a 10 PSI or so increase is not much...maybe 15% or so more flow...bringing it up to about 425cc/min per injector....

[Sydneykid]

Hi Steve-SST, what sort of RPM for 431.6 rwhp?

[GTS-t VSPEC]

Sydneykid, We have the rev-limit set at 7500rpm, but it makes peak power about 7200rpm.

Phantom, Yes there are no losses from the tyres, and the results tend to be 1-2% higher than a Dyno Dynamic's dyno in Shootout mode. Our point wasn't the actual figure, it was just a second dyno to back-up our power claim on standard injectors which some people couldn't quite believe:D

[Sydneykid]

Hi GTS-t VSPEC, hang on is the fuel pressure at zero boost 50 psi at the fuel rail or 40 psi? What is it at 18 psi boost?