Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

i received an email today from nitto sales re the launch of their new site, good work jim and theo...its been a long time waiting

prob cost more than man on the moon for a 1-off too :blink:

I coudnt imagine it costing more than a new oil pump. Personally i think its rediculous to have to spend over $1000 for a decent oil pump. Here in the states i dont any stock style oil pump costing anywhere near $1000 but the RB ones. Its a F'ing rip off.

Is it possible to take the N1 Pump apart and take the old gear to a machine shop and have a new stronger gear made?

Yeah you could. (Machine work in the states is alot cheaper than in Aus.... and if he drives a 240sx, he's american)

I thought it was done just outside Area 51. Haha

Ha ha ha ha ha ahh a.... it was shot in a sound studio in Navada. Apparently in the movie you can see the light from a door being opened off stage.

  • 1 month later...

Has anyone tried to use the replacement billet gear sets for N1 pump ? Made by JPC Performance in AU. http://www.jpc.com.au/products_rb30.php

Could that be a sollution to the problem ?

Edited by RB26SX

i didnt read every letter of all the previous posts, however, I have a FJ20 engine in my ride which dont have the best oil pump in the world from factory in them either. When i built my engine i used a BDG external oil pump. Its a single stage belt driven unit with a mounting bracket off the side of the engine to mount it and a plate with a spline welded onto it bolted to the front of the harmonic balancer. We machined off the 3rd pulley from the balancer and bolted the plate there in its place. The pump was $960 and then once the internal pump was deleted, it was a matter of tapping a fitting into the block and making up a pickup in the sump the suit. Base pressure and peak pressure can be set very easily via an allen key adjuster and spring selection.

Maybe worth considering... just a thought.

Please ignore the control arm chop. It has been boxed in and strengthened since these pics.

IMG_0002.jpg

Just throwing my own little bit of fuel on the fire. I happened to have a N1 pump sitting around waiting to go back on my RB24 when it's done. I also happened to have a RB20 crank with a JUN collar installed that came out of my engine before it went to the builder. Took a little vid just to show the amount of play between the two. I also mic'd the two and came up with 0.22mm of clearance between the flats. Seems a bit excessive to me. I personally don't think it's a material issue as much as a design issue. And it's not just a pump design issue but, an entire oiling system design issue. I would bet that while not all of the N1 failures happen during heavy acceleration or cornering that the initial damage that leads to the failures did. I think that any kind of cavitation in the pump do to the oil sloshing to the back or side of the pan could cause extra resistance on the outside gear or even momentary seizure. This coupled with a loose fitting drive I would think would be enough to break the gears. I also think that has something to do with why Sydneykid prolly hasn't seen the failures that most have. If you do everything to keep the sump from ever sucking air this isn't an issue at all. When my engine gets back I'll have to fit the N1 drive gear to the R33 crank that's in it now and see if there's a difference. And just so it's clear, I'm not championing any pump or pump fix here. I'm just suggesting a cause to the problem.

th_pumpdrive.jpg

I've got two sets of the JPC steel gears here for an RB30 and RB25/30 I'm currently doing. I can snap some photos if you're interested. They fit an N1 housing, not a standard 25/26 pump. I've only had one in well over 50 N1 pumps break but that's one too many and the steel gears are cheap insurance.

Just throwing my own little bit of fuel on the fire. I happened to have a N1 pump sitting around waiting to go back on my RB24 when it's done. I also happened to have a RB20 crank with a JUN collar installed that came out of my engine before it went to the builder. Took a little vid just to show the amount of play between the two. I also mic'd the two and came up with 0.22mm of clearance between the flats. Seems a bit excessive to me. I personally don't think it's a material issue as much as a design issue. And it's not just a pump design issue but, an entire oiling system design issue. I would bet that while not all of the N1 failures happen during heavy acceleration or cornering that the initial damage that leads to the failures did. I think that any kind of cavitation in the pump do to the oil sloshing to the back or side of the pan could cause extra resistance on the outside gear or even momentary seizure. This coupled with a loose fitting drive I would think would be enough to break the gears. I also think that has something to do with why Sydneykid prolly hasn't seen the failures that most have. If you do everything to keep the sump from ever sucking air this isn't an issue at all. When my engine gets back I'll have to fit the N1 drive gear to the R33 crank that's in it now and see if there's a difference. And just so it's clear, I'm not championing any pump or pump fix here. I'm just suggesting a cause to the problem.

th_pumpdrive.jpg

This excessive clearance is something I was alluding to several pages ago.

I'm still waiting on my splined gears but if that doesn't come through, as opposed to using the collar that I have sitting here, I am thinking of having the snout built up then machined back to suit my specific N1 gears.

bubba - that is a lot of play, cant belive that!

i just wonder whether this clearance is required though for heat expansion...greg, what are your thoughts on this? do you recall how much play my pump has with the customer collar you made for it?

i also noticed that the clearance between pump gear and crank was high...

what i dont understand is why nissan use two flat surfaces to drive the pump so all the force is put on two small areas. surely a hexagonal shape or similar would have worked much more effectively

bubba - that is a lot of play, cant belive that!

i just wonder whether this clearance is required though for heat expansion...greg, what are your thoughts on this? do you recall how much play my pump has with the customer collar you made for it?

If heat expansion was an issue wouldn't the timing gear be prone to failure when the engine reached operating temperature?

it was $960 for the pump and then the price of a custom sump, mine was around $300 from memory as the engine builder did the whole engine including the sump. Then some braided line and a mounting bracket, the belt and modification to the crank snout. Around 2k in total i think. I dont have much of an idea what a new aftermarket high flow internal pump costs for an RB, but i thought 2k for a big oil setup was pretty good.

G

bubba - that is a lot of play, cant belive that!

i just wonder whether this clearance is required though for heat expansion...greg, what are your thoughts on this? do you recall how much play my pump has with the customer collar you made for it?

They need clearance to allow for manufacturing tolerances where the centreline of the crank can be not quite concentric with the centreline of the pump gear, I made yours a little tighter Marko because I sat the pump on and checked where it was running before I made the collar. The clearance isn't a problem. The standard rb25/26 gears don't break and they run the same. SR20's, CA18's, Toyota 4AG's, Hondas and others run the same drive setup and rarely have problems. Nissan TB48 engines have a similar problem when they're pushed. I think it's just down to the material used. Powdered metal is used for a lot of parts that are hard to machine cheaply, almost all oil pump gears are made the same way. To mill an N1 outer gear you'd need to use a <2mm diameter cutter which just isn't workable for that type of job.

I don't know why Nissan made the N1 pump with a smaller diameter outer gear which makes everything a little thinner and easier to break. I just fitted a set of the JPC gears to an N1 housing and they are good, same side clearance as factory and about .001" more clearance between the gears. The engine is from a hillclimb/circuit car still running the hydraulic tappets so I didn't want to go for a bigger pump.

The engine is from a hillclimb/circuit car still running the hydraulic tappets so I didn't want to go for a bigger pump.

Hey there Greg.

Interesting that you wrote this as it brings up a question I've wanted to ask. I am about to buy a Tomei Pump for 'insurance' that my current N1 Pump doesn't break - however I wonder what are the disadvantages (if any) of having the larger pump besides its price.

I have a winged 9Litre Performance Metalcraft sump. People talk about the Tomei 'running the sump dry' but this makes no sense to me unless they are running massive pressure... if the pressure is adjusted on Tomei to a similar pressure of the N1, then (given the same motor) the flow should be near identical should it not? ie the Tomei will bypass all the extra flow straight back to the sump? And if so, is this a problem?

Long ago I looked at replacing the N1 gears with the Reimax ones. The reason I bought the N1 in the first place was because the RB26 already seems to suffer from too much oil going to the head (so everyone puts restrictors in). So there didn't seem to be any point going to the higher volume pumps given the clearances that are run.

So is the only real reason to put a Tomei in for the strength of its gears? And for the fact that is has this '3 gear' design which might be a little more forgiving on any crank wobble? Or is it actually "better" to run an N1 size pump with Reimax (or JPC etc) gears for strength.. Lets forget price for a moment, lets just say you could buy either for the same price:

1. Tomei with the pressure kept down (and hence less oil pumped to the head)

2. N1 with very strong gears.

(guys this is not a N1 vs Tomei or Nitto or JUN question - just a question of High Pressure/Volume vs 'needs' of the engine I guess)

Thoughts?

Edited by R32 TT

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Did this end up working? Did you take some pictures?
    • And finally, the front lower mount. It was doubly weird. Firstly, the lower mount is held in with a bracket that has 3 bolts (it also acts as the steering lock stop), and then a nut on the shock lower mount itself. So, remove the 3x 14mm head bolts , then the 17mm nut that holds the shock in. From there, you can't actually remove the shock from the lower mount bolt (took me a while to work that out....) Sadly I don't have a pic of the other side, but the swaybar mounts to the same bolt that holds the shock in. You need to push that swaybar mount/bolt back so the shock can be pulled out past the lower control arm.  In this pic you can see the bolt partly pushed back, but it had to go further than that to release the shock. Once the shock is out, putting the new one in is "reverse of disassembly". Put the top of the shock through at least one hole and put a nut on loosely to hold it in place. Put the lower end in place and push the swaybar mount / shock bolt back in place, then loosely attach the other 2 top nuts. Bolt the bracket back in place with the 14mm head bolts and finally put the nut onto the lower bolt. Done....you have new suspension on your v37!
    • And now to the front.  No pics of the 3 nuts holding the front struts on, they are easy to spot. Undo 2 and leave the closest one on loosely. Underneath we have to deal with the wiring again, but this time its worse because the plug is behind the guard liner. You'll have to decide how much of the guard liner to remove, I undid the lower liner's top, inside and lower clips, but didn't pull it full off the guard. Same issue undoing the plug as at the rear, you need to firmly push the release clip from below while equally firmly gripping the plug body and pulling it out of  the socket. I used my fancy electrical disconnect pliers to get in there There is also one clip for the wiring, unlike at the rear I could not get behind it so just had to lever it up and out.....not in great condition to re-use in future.
    • Onto the rear lower shock mount. It's worth starting with a decent degrease to remove 10+ years of road grime, and perhaps also spray a penetrating oil on the shock lower nut. Don't forget to include the shock wiring and plug in the clean.... Deal with the wiring first; you need to release 2 clips where the wiring goes into the bracket (use long nose pliers behind the bracket to compress the clip so you can reuse it), and the rubber mount slides out, then release the plug.  I found it very hard to unplug, from underneath you can compress the tab with a screwdriver or similar, and gently but firmly pull the plug out of the socket (regular pliers may help but don't put too much pressure on the plastic. The lower mount is straightforward, 17mm nut and you can pull the shock out. As I wasn't putting a standard shock back in, I gave the car side wiring socket a generous gob of dialectric grease to keep crap out in the future. Putting the new shock in is straightforward, feed it into at least 1 of the bolt holes at the top and reach around to put a nut on it to hold it up. Then put on the other 2 top nuts loosely and put the shock onto the lower mounting bolt (you may need to lift the hub a little if the new shock is shorter). Tighten the lower nut and 3 upper nuts and you are done. In my case the BC Racing shocks came assembled for the fronts, but the rears needed to re-use the factory strut tops. For that you need spring compressors to take the pressure off the top nut (they are compressed enough when the spring can move between the top and bottom spring seats. Then a 17mm ring spanner to undo the nut while using an 8mm open spanner to stop the shaft turning (or, if you are really lucky you might get it off with a rattle gun).
    • You will now be able to lift the parcel shelf trim enough to get to the shock cover bolts; if you need to full remove the parcel shelf trim for some reason you also remove the escutcheons around the rear seat release and you will have to unplug the high stop light wiring from the boot. Next up is removal of the bracket; 6 nuts and a bolt Good news, you've finally got to the strut top! Remove the dust cover and the 3 shock mount nuts (perhaps leave 1 on lightly for now....) Same on the other side, but easier now you've done it all before
×
×
  • Create New...