Abs Or Not?

[brodie7]

Hey guys,

i've just been in a good 2 or 3 hour discussion with dad and a few other racing mates on weather we should run Abs.

it seems all good in theory and you cant lock a brake, flat spot a tyre and techniqually you should be stopping in the shortest distance possible..

The plus's for not having abs seems to be weight, adjustablity and being able to adjust the Brake Bias in a race. I see alot of guys not running their Abs, and all of the V-Spec and Nismo model Gtr's dont have Abs standard which seems a bit odd to me.

I'm just wondering what really is giving you the best braking power, because i'm not worried about flatspotting tyres but just want the best overall braking performance..

cheers Guys

[Duncan]

well there is a can of worms!

which car?

i run the ABS on my 32 gtr, mostly because it is rubbish and lets a lot of lock up before it actually gets around to kicking in. But ultimately it can save a set of tyres if I have a big f**k up, or some unexpected problem.

Modern 4 channel ABS is amazing, and can of course do things a driver with only 1 brake pedal would dream of. Many of them are too sensitive for track use though.

I am pretty sure that ever since Stu McColl's accident ABS has been optional in all classes due to the safety question mark.

[scathing]

Modern 4 channel ABS is amazing, and can of course do things a driver with only 1 brake pedal would dream of. Many of them are too sensitive for track use though.

Yeah, I remember reading an interview with John Bowe talking about running ABS in one of the race cars he drove (Prancing Horse I think?) He actually preferred it since he could trail brake into a corner pretty hard without having to worry about spinning out.

Of course, on a motorsport Fazza it'd probably be adjustable and not as sensitive as a street car.

Can't you adjust brake bias in a race if you have ABS? My Z33 has ABS and EBD, which means there's no physical reason why its not possible.

[Beer Baron]

my advice, yes run it. as duncan said in 32s it will let you go far enough that you can actually lock wheels before it decides to cut in, so it's not really intrusive. you will only ever encounter it if you have a real f**k-up. good hard braking won't trigger it on the track. sometimes it will trigger if you have big bumps coming into a corner which can be a pain. but then big bumps coming into a corner will probably cause you to lock up without it so that kind of evens out...

if you have it, I say run it.

[Wacky Dee]

is it true that all skylines with ABS have that spongy brake feel ? Like the initial travel is a few cm with no bite whatsoever ... ? Mine are like this and I've read in numerous posts people having the same issue and those that don't, don't appear to have ABS at all..

If that's true ..I'd stay away from the ABS. The lack of initial bite and feeling of having stuck your foot in a bucket of mud doesn't inspire much confidence when braking.

[brodie7]

hey guys,

yeah i currently have a R32 gtr the brakes do feel abit dodgey esspecially after driving cars like rx7 s6's their brakes seem to be miles ahead.

i like a solid pedal and back when i used to race karts i used to have the brake pedal set up so solid that pretty much no one except me could brake in my kart without spinning out. Im also very aggressive under brakes, which i no isnt always good and causes alot of over heating problems.

its a hard thing to decide, keep the commetns coming though guys it really does help, the more i find out the R32 the faster mine should be.

cheers

[Duncan]

is it true that all skylines with ABS have that spongy brake feel ? Like the initial travel is a few cm with no bite whatsoever ...

yeah I have seen a lot of people having complaints about this....but the answer is......not at all.

I run the ABS in the race car and they pedal feel is perfect.

I do have braided lines and good master cylinder and brake piston seals.

And use good fluid and bleed it properly.

It can be done and feels fine...yes not as direct as a non-abs system but not bad enough to make it worth removing all that gear

[Wacky Dee]

When you say 'good master cylinder' do you mean a bigger than stock one or just one with no internal leaks etc ? I def need a new master cyl but its friggin exxy ($420 from rhdjapan.com) as mine's got some internal leaks (pedal sinks very slowly if you hold it pressed down) .. plus my piston seals definately need to be replaced as one of my pistons was seized up at last pad change.

Seeing as how you are a Sydneysider, can you recommend anyone to do my brakes ? ie. put new seals in (I can get new oem ones from japan for about $120 total front and back) + new master cylinder and PROPER bleed. Speaking of which, is it possible/necessary to bleed the ABS system ?

[Duncan]

yeah I meant one with good seals. I am not sure but you can probably buy an aftermarket local replacement cylinder from PBR or similar - a master cylinder is a pretty simple thing.

And indeed I can recommend a brakeshop - talk to race brakes in wetherill park. they helped sort out my issues and really know their shit. Not cheap but sometimes you have to pay for experience, and its worth it for a good brake pedal.

BTW I've never bled my ABS even when changing brake lines

[Beer Baron]

yep I agree with duncan. getting a good pedal feel out of a 32 GTR is not hard. same with me, rebuilt standard calipers, braided lines, cusco master stopper and a new master cylinder. that was my old set-up and with good pads and good fluid and regular bleeding it had great pedal. I have the same brakes (32 GTR sumitomos) in my silvia which is non ABS and also has braided lines etc and the pedal is no better in that car. maybe a tiny bit firmer right at the top of the travel but in track use or hard driving there is no real difference in confidence or feel (well except that you can lock brakes in the silvia!).

and there is enough feel in the standard gear that with some time in the car you can easily brake right to the ABS/lock-up threshold without triggering it.

I have never bled the ABS unit either. and I've replaced lines etc too.

[Wacky Dee]

Thanks guys I've already spoken to Race Brakes a while ago and asked about caliper piston and master cylinder reconditioning and was told they send em away to get done which made me think they don't actually specialize in reconditioning but rather proper brake upgrades ie. new calipers etc

[Duncan]

yeah I understand they send them off site for the seals. and like I said I would buy a brand new master not recondition it, I've not changed mine but the are a simple combination of diameter, outlets and mounting points so it will be possible to find a local equivalent

and anyone can help with the bleeding - the technique is simple, just needs to be followed carefully.