2010 Nsw Supersprint Champs

[LSX-438]

now where is that popcorn.

it's going to be an interesting year....clearly this series is getting very competitive

Seems pretty clear to me, r35's (and other cars in SSC type 4 for that matter) do not need to be "sport sedans" AFAIK, it's black and white as above rule.

I dont see how anyone could misunderstand this one.

[Duncan]

yeah I'm not familiar with the nswssc part of the rules, only cams schedules a & b. I guess the question will be do they comply with all parts of type 1,2,3 or svd other than tyres

[LSX-438]

yeah I'm not familiar with the nswssc part of the rules, only cams schedules a & b. I guess the question will be do they comply with all parts of type 1,2,3 or svd other than tyres

Duncan, have a read of Stuarts post above. It is primarily about 4D eligibility, specifically citing the r35's in this case. Types 1,2,3 and SV can run slicks and therefore be categorised as type 4 for points. This isnt a CAMS issue, it's a SSC rule.

[nismoman]

Reading the NSWSSC vehicle regulations, it actually pays to have a highly modified street registered car and put slicks on it. SV class allows unlimitied modifications, provided it still meets all road registration rules. In fact, any street registered car that is modified must still meet ADR requirements and as such shall possess either an engineer's certificate or a letter from an RTA authorised inspection station saying it does so.

NSWSSC regs also state that this documentation must be presented at any event the car competes in at scrutineering.

On another note, if any full blown sports sedans turn up at our supersprint such as Darren Hossack in his Audi 6ltr chev, I'm sure he would be collecting all the trophies, but I guess he has other championships to win and bigger fish to fry.

[R32 Stuart]

Wow Stuart that's odd...

Whomever or wherever this hearsay is coming from, they clearly have not read this part of the NSWSSC rulebook:

"Type 4 - Competition vehicles based on Group 3D - Sports Sedan rules as defined in the CAMS Manual. In addition any vehicle that conforms to Type 1, 2, 3 or SV requirements shall be permitted to employ or use Race Tyres but if it does so it shall be classified as a Type 4 vehicle."

Therefore "Type 4" for the NSWSSC can be any type 1/2/3 or SV car running slicks, simple as that.

R35's are not sport sedans as defined by the CAMS manual, that is correct. There are many reasons why they never could be as you point out. But i believe that is irrelevant given the Type 4 category definition in the SSC rulebook.

Hi Duncan

Personally I think the R35s are great, I also think SSP & Cams screwed the rules Re SV & Type 4, this year - for lots of 4D competitors, more so older vehicles and new comers. Anyways, as the rules state vehicles must be registered to be accepted for this variation as per the rules - any mod's, ie) exhaust, suspension, wheels, ECU's aero etc must comply with ADR's and rego for vehicle and age Good Luck & well done.

[Neil]

now where is that popcorn.

If you ask nicey I'll pass it to you,,but while your up can you get me another beer cause I want to know what 'The Tuner Group' guy is going to do when his "in cabin electronically adjustable rear spoiler' is made illegal cause I wouldn't want to miss his reponse.

Cheers

Neil.

[LSX-438]

Hi Duncan

Personally I think the R35s are great, I also think SSP & Cams screwed the rules Re SV & Type 4, this year - for lots of 4D competitors, more so older vehicles and new comers. Anyways, as the rules state vehicles must be registered to be accepted for this variation as per the rules - any mod's, ie) exhaust, suspension, wheels, ECU's aero etc must comply with ADR's and rego for vehicle and age Good Luck & well done.

exactly what rules changed this year?

[GTR32G]

I can’t believe people are getting so upset over this rear wing or R35 in Type 4, I run in type 4 with my old sports sedan and have no issue with R35 being in type 4, I know I’m never going to beat a R35 unless I buy a national level sport sedan, but at least with the rules if my Mazda sport sedan is broken and let’s face its rotor it happens I can run my R32 GTR road car on slicks in type 4 and keep getting points.

As for the wing Merek was faster with a fixed wing over the adjustable one? I think the rules need to be changed to clearly state cars with adjustable rear wings car run in SV, or slicks in type 4 we are not in the 90’s any more people there are more and more factory cars coming out with electronic adjustable rear wings so what do you do when they want to run? Sorry you car does not meet CAMS regulations you can’t run........ Let’s get as many cars out there as possible and all be happy.

As for cars needing engineering reports to run in SV, that’s true if its very modified but I don’t see where the R35 does not comply, this is from the RTA web site for regulations to body alterations

Bodywork and interior

There are general requirements concerning alterations to the bodywork:

No alteration may cause a hazard to persons due to exposed sharp edges or projections; and

No alteration may cause a reduction in the level of safety or overall strength of the vehicle.

I’m sure people will flame me for what I have wrote above but at the end of the day these are road registered cars, I take my hat off to you for driving the cars at the best of your abilities and not just pussy footing around it’s just so impressive the lap times these cars can do, I thank you as it has changed super sprinting forever and made every one step up a level. So much infact the Turbo PRB is coming back out to play with my brother Allan behind the wheel. He will run the rest of this year on DOT tyres then soft slicks and more power for next year.

[nismoman]

I have no issues with any wing or R35's running in 4D.

I'm just trying to point out that any road registered car in the supersprint championship with modifications, entered under type 2, 3, 4 and SV need to have an engineers certificate or RTA letter. I would imagine most would not and I know this is not checked at scrutineering. For cars that are not road registered (such as ourselves), we have met all CAMS regs, roll cage and log book requirements so I think it's only fair that road registered cars meet their requirements of having the proper documentation for their modifications. I'm after consistency that's all.

My old 180SX with mods had an engineers certificate and this helped avoid trouble with police and defects.

Even fitment of a blow off valve or pod filter to a street car requires an engineers certificate or emissions test from RTA to ensure it still meets ADR's.

Edited June 24, 2010 by nismoman

[GTR32G]

I have no issues with any wing or R35's running in 4D.

I'm just trying to point out that any road registered car in the supersprint championship with modifications, entered under type 2, 3, 4 and SV need to have an engineers certificate or RTA letter. I would imagine most would not and I know this is not checked at scrutineering. For cars that are not road registered (such as ourselves), we have met all CAMS regs, roll cage and log book requirements so I think it's only fair that road registered cars meet their requirements of having the proper documentation for their modifications. I'm after consistency that's all.

My old 180SX with mods had an engineers certificate and this helped avoid trouble with police and defects.

Even fitment of a blow off valve or pod filter to a street car requires an engineers certificate or emissions test from RTA to ensure it still meets ADR's.

Not to have a shot at you but this will only make supersprinting more expensive, i would be at the engineers every few months updating my report for the GTR as i keep playing wit it. And really it would not pass emissions as alot of supersprint cars would not. Its just a waist of money. I think the Supersrpint panel only asked for an engineers report once when some one rocked up a few years ago with a 12A turbo Toyota Corolla to run in SV them ran it on slicks in type 4.

[nismoman]

Not to have a shot at you but this will only make supersprinting more expensive, i would be at the engineers every few months updating my report for the GTR as i keep playing wit it. And really it would not pass emissions as alot of supersprint cars would not. Its just a waist of money. I think the Supersrpint panel only asked for an engineers report once when some one rocked up a few years ago with a 12A turbo Toyota Corolla to run in SV them ran it on slicks in type 4.

I see your point and to a certain extent I agree, but I'm not the one who wrote the rules. I just see some serious flaws in the enforcement of the regulations that sees road registered cars getting a free pass on modifications and not having to meet class requirements.

As I run in 4D, it doesn't affect me. I would like to see it fairer for others throughout the field.

If I get the opportunity again, I will build a totally off tit's road registered car with unlimited mods and take advantage of the lack of regulation.

[GTR32G]

Well this is a big News Flash, Formula 1 must have been keeping an eye on Duncan R35 at supersprints, F1 as of 2011 will allow adjustable controlled wings by the driver.

Under new moveable bodywork regulations for next season, drivers will be able to adjust the rear wing from the cockpit as soon as they are two laps into the race. However, the system’s availability will be electronically controlled and it will only be activated when a driver is less than one second behind another at pre-determined points on the track. The system will then be deactivated once the driver brakes. It will be available at all times throughout practice and qualifying.

This is the link to the site:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/6/10935.html

Looks like the NSW CAMS Supersprints is leading the world to change

[Risking]

You lot running around doing 1's in an un caged at on slicks must have a death wish!!!

Your corner speed must be massive it's only a matter of time till someone has a BIG lose and gets injured. R35's are no doubt a great car but no car is going to hold up in a hit with that kind if pace behind it.

[R32 Stuart]

exactly what rules changed this year?

Hi Duncan

Here's one that comes to mind

2006 Supersprint Regs, Pg 15 Type 4, section 1.3 no vehicle shall be permitted to run as a Type 4 vehicle if it has an engine capacity in excess of 6000 cubic centimetres

2008 Supersprint Regs, Pg19 Type 4, section 1.7 Any vehicle that is classified as a Type SV vehicle pursuant to these regulations, with the exception of kit cars, prototypes and/or limited production vehicles that employ or use racing slicks, shall, at the option of the Entrant, be permitted to be entered any supersprint as a type 4 vehicle in any Class within Type 4 provided that engine capacity of the vehicle does not exceed the maximum capacity allowable in the Class entered.

This one - 2010 Supersprint Regs, Pg 23 Type 4, section 1.3 No vehicle shal be permitted to run as a type 4 vehicle if it has an engine capacity in excess of 6000 cubic centimetres with the expection of those vehicles that, apart from the use of Race Tyres, comply with Type SV requirements.

[R32 Stuart]

I can't believe people are getting so upset over this rear wing or R35 in Type 4, I run in type 4 with my old sports sedan and have no issue with R35 being in type 4, I know I'm never going to beat a R35 unless I buy a national level sport sedan, but at least with the rules if my Mazda sport sedan is broken and let's face its rotor it happens I can run my R32 GTR road car on slicks in type 4 and keep getting points.

As for the wing Merek was faster with a fixed wing over the adjustable one? I think the rules need to be changed to clearly state cars with adjustable rear wings car run in SV, or slicks in type 4 we are not in the 90's any more people there are more and more factory cars coming out with electronic adjustable rear wings so what do you do when they want to run? Sorry you car does not meet CAMS regulations you can't run........ Let's get as many cars out there as possible and all be happy.

As for cars needing engineering reports to run in SV, that's true if its very modified but I don't see where the R35 does not comply, this is from the RTA web site for regulations to body alterations

Bodywork and interior

There are general requirements concerning alterations to the bodywork:

No alteration may cause a hazard to persons due to exposed sharp edges or projections; and

No alteration may cause a reduction in the level of safety or overall strength of the vehicle.

I'm sure people will flame me for what I have wrote above but at the end of the day these are road registered cars, I take my hat off to you for driving the cars at the best of your abilities and not just pussy footing around it's just so impressive the lap times these cars can do, I thank you as it has changed super sprinting forever and made every one step up a level. So much infact the Turbo PRB is coming back out to play with my brother Allan behind the wheel. He will run the rest of this year on DOT tyres then soft slicks and more power for next year.

Hi Brian

Seems you have access to the RTA computer, you might like to look at other ADRs emmissions and suspension changes on 09 cars, let us know, I dont beleive anyone said neither of the cars werent doing an excellent job, I think the issue is if you go racing you need one set of rules, if you go hillclimbing you need another and if you go supersprinting different again - I think this is more of a panel and CAMs issue. Following 5 years of running SV type classes - some combine 2A, 2B, 3J in some supp regs continuity is not there I do beleive it is not fair on older 4 D cars to compete against the 35's nor would the 35's like to compete against Riccardello, Jackson and Hossack - I beleive the CAMs manual already has the class - 2A sports car with the option of the organising club to request registered or unregistered.

You can build a car run at all 3 events even over 6 ltr.

Lastly will be good to see another competitor because as you and others have noticed they are dwindling

[LSX-438]

Hi Duncan

Here's one that comes to mind

2006 Supersprint Regs, Pg 15 Type 4, section 1.3 no vehicle shall be permitted to run as a Type 4 vehicle if it has an engine capacity in excess of 6000 cubic centimetres

2008 Supersprint Regs, Pg19 Type 4, section 1.7 Any vehicle that is classified as a Type SV vehicle pursuant to these regulations, with the exception of kit cars, prototypes and/or limited production vehicles that employ or use racing slicks, shall, at the option of the Entrant, be permitted to be entered any supersprint as a type 4 vehicle in any Class within Type 4 provided that engine capacity of the vehicle does not exceed the maximum capacity allowable in the Class entered.

This one - 2010 Supersprint Regs, Pg 23 Type 4, section 1.3 No vehicle shal be permitted to run as a type 4 vehicle if it has an engine capacity in excess of 6000 cubic centimetres with the expection of those vehicles that, apart from the use of Race Tyres, comply with Type SV requirements.

I'm still not clear on what has changed from 2009 to 2010.

But if all this controversy comes down to the Type 4 engine cc limit then ok.

If/when the protest eventuates maybe we'll be privy to who is lodging it and the exact reasons behind it. Until that happens i guess we're all guessing on the what/who/when/why's.

Anyway goodluck in the last few rounds guys, everyone.

[R32 Stuart]

Its raining, supersprint panel still havent advised if we can run our radical supercharged tow car yet - so maybe looking at the rules just for fun, I can run our 450hp upgraded to 525hp Scania its got a hydraulic adjustable rear wing - being a tipper, local rego, cant see anything in the rules that says I cant enter it in Type SV or 4D.

Its on semi-slicks and will put some good rubber down for everyone if nothing else. Excellent for blocking.

Better go and pull the gear box back out of the 33 instead of stirring the pot too much.

Cheers

[LSX-438]

Anyway Stuart, best of luck for the remaining rounds. Hats off to you mate you drive the car harder than most, decades of experience and it really shows. Goodluck.

[R32 Stuart]

Anyway Stuart, best of luck for the remaining rounds. Hats off to you mate you drive the car harder than most, decades of experience and it really shows. Goodluck.

Thanks, but my lucks turned to sh*T, hats off to you and Marek for where you have put the 35's, as you do, I drive to enjoy (in 3 years will do the decade stuff) I didnt think I looked that old, you will have ask K about that.

How about a few different classes, ask for an invite to the next panel meeting?

Cant see why NSW Supersprint panel moved away from CAMs manual? When other states and Australian supersprint even superlap is still based on this crappy old manual.

Hillclimb, in all states, uses the manual as a bible - all be it not always for the better, but this is final.

It does state in the cams manual, speed event rules, this does include Hillclimb and Supersprints etc etc etc

Surely, someone has to realise that its 2010 nearly 2011, it took us 5 years to get SV rules eligible in the first place I think its time somebody else did something as this class can and was and will be the main entry for any speed event series.

Anyways on borrowed gearbox (I hope) from Award Diff our next is Irace EC on the 9th Aug - in 33 and then looks like, if I cook tea and buy lots of flowers - 32 will be back out of the shed for Tamworth Hillclimb and the rest of the year. Over the mice thinking this a good home NOT.

Cheers all

PS I have just made a deal I can get the 32 out of the shed, but look out Karens also running next year, warning Karen was fastest lady first time in 32 in 2006 Australian HC C'Ship now older and crankier - believe me

[Duncan]

Cant see why NSW Supersprint panel moved away from CAMs manual? When other states and Australian supersprint even superlap is still based on this crappy old manual.

Hillclimb, in all states, uses the manual as a bible - all be it not always for the better, but this is final.

It does state in the cams manual, speed event rules, this does include Hillclimb and Supersprints etc etc etc

Surely, someone has to realise that its 2010 nearly 2011, it took us 5 years to get SV rules eligible in the first place I think its time somebody else did something as this class can and was and will be the main entry for any speed event series.

indeed...it just makes it harder to have a car that can compete in multiple disciplines, which in turn discourages competitors. No doubt many of the rules are a very outdated attempt to keep very old cars competitive.

But ultimately, if one class (SV) is half your entry list then something needs to be done.

When I run CAMS there are going to be 3 classes:

* Production Cars (run under current rules, they are fine for what they are). Also Tarmac Rally cars. Standard turbos, standard boost, standard size wheels, standard injectors/fuel pumps, afms. Currently an evo gift but they are the best production cars around right now. Measured and sealed motor required for racing. Pump Fuel only

* Improved Production Cars (same as current rules but no intake restrictor. Their competitor numbers would go through the roof over night. Yes the 6 rx7s would have to retire but it is ludicrous that they are the only car that can win under current rules). Main limit on performance here is standard size wheels. Pump fuel or e85 only

* Sports Sedans (current rules except 4wd do not have the ridiculous "can't modify the floorpan" rules. weight limits per capacity class is enough). Pump fuel, e85, race fuel, methanol, whatever...anything goes

Those rules would be perfect for supersprints/superlap, hillclimb and racing....break down by class and capacity if necessary....one set of rules to bind them all!

BTW my rules would certainly allow active aero in sports sedans. As per current, no changes to prod cars and minimal, fixed changes to aero in IPRA.