Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Lol ^

There is no evidence that flutter damages your turbo, so it is hard to say how much if any damage it would be doing. Personally i think it does damage the turbo, but if you are worried about it then just remedy it with a good plumb back bov

kkr :) ..wat bov "if so" r u currently running?,and i wouldnt worry bowt the flutter too much (that is unless u dont like it).I Had no bov on my old 180sx for nearly 5 years runnin a T28 running @1bar everyday and never had any problems at all and luvd the flutter :D

There IS evidence actually mate.

Ceramic turbo's last long under surge. Steel wheel as found in R33s can handle it, they'll usually end up with shaft play before the turbine blades go, either way it is bad for your turbo. The more boost the worse it is.

If you want to fix it straight away, either loop the intake to skip the turbo, if you have a boost controller - cut out boost altogether, and rectify why your blow off valve isnt opening.

There IS evidence actually mate.

Ceramic turbo's last long under surge. Steel wheel as found in R33s can handle it, they'll usually end up with shaft play before the turbine blades go, either way it is bad for your turbo. The more boost the worse it is.

If you want to fix it straight away, either loop the intake to skip the turbo, if you have a boost controller - cut out boost altogether, and rectify why your blow off valve isnt opening.

It would be very hard to prove that compressor surge was the reason for any turbo failure, hence there is no actual evidence to demonstrate that. I know people that are running 12-14psi through ceramic turbos with no bov, and have been for years, yet their turbos still have very little to no shaft play. On the other hand, my mechanic showed me a turbo that he had been running in his R33 GTS-T for 40xxxkms and never fluttered, the shaft had way too much play.

Having said that, i am on your side, i believe it causes damage and should be avoided. I am just saying there is no physical evidence that can be solely contributed to compressor surge

Edited by Hanaldo

Then what you claim is there is no evidence, in ANY case, regardless of any setup, to say that anything caused turbo death or extended its life. What would have caused it then ? stock turbo's don't blow teeth off... :)

Its highly likely that bouncing 10psi at 7 grand back onto ceramic blades will cause those blades to break free. Any that doesnt is simply a factory freak.

That's the thing, it can't be proven beyond any shadow of a doubt. Personally i accept what evidence there is (eg. what you said above ^) as flutter is bad and causes damage. But as far as firm concrete evidence is concerned, there are plenty of stock turbos out there fluttering away happily. I forget what magazine it was in, pretty sure it was HPI because that's what i read most, but there was an article in there about testing done on a stock RB25 turbo where they literally fluttered it to death, and yes the blades blew sky high. But the final verdict was that the result was not conclusive because there were too many other factors. The turbo had already travelled 120xxxkms, and who knows how hard it had been pushed or how poorly it had been looked after. The fact that the wheel blew under flutter could simply be an indication that it was already damaged.

Oh and Im guessing somebody will come back with "oh but Ceffies didnt have boV from factory and their ceramic turbo's last just as long" - yes, but factory turbo ceffies boost less than 5 psi... which is safe enough for ceramic, can probably handle a tad more. Steel wheel can handle alot more on top, but for "massive flutter" you need some seriously high pressure.

Edited by Nic_A31
That's the thing, it can't be proven beyond any shadow of a doubt. Personally i accept what evidence there is (eg. what you said above ^) as flutter is bad and causes damage. But as far as firm concrete evidence is concerned, there are plenty of stock turbos out there fluttering away happily. I forget what magazine it was in, pretty sure it was HPI because that's what i read most, but there was an article in there about testing done on a stock RB25 turbo where they literally fluttered it to death, and yes the blades blew sky high. But the final verdict was that the result was not conclusive because there were too many other factors. The turbo had already travelled 120xxxkms, and who knows how hard it had been pushed or how poorly it had been looked after. The fact that the wheel blew under flutter could simply be an indication that it was already damaged.

This is probably where we're dissagreing.

What death exactly are you thinking of?

Im saying that high pressure going back towards a compressor will rip the blades off the wheel.

Immediately slowing down and speeding back up (surge) can cause the shaft to snap, or contribute towards shaft play, and shaft play / broken shaft can also be affected by prior life of the turbo (kms, oils used, treatment etc), such factors cannot possibly cause the blades on a wheel to come off ... that can only be caused by excessive feedback.

Edited by Nic_A31

Yeah like I said, shaft play / snapping / any shaft drama' is caused by any or a combination of issues. Spinning at 200'000 or 300'000 rpm, then being forced to go the other way in less than half a second certainly doesnt help the shaft live a long and happy life.

Hey guys, thanks for the reply's.

It hasn't had an Aftermarket Bov installed so I'm guessing that its running stock if not, none at all.

so the Kkr isn't such a good turbo?

would you please suggest A turbo that would be a good replacement, here are my engine specs at the moment

Engine: Rb25Det

83000kms

KKr430 turbo

High Mount Stainless Manifold

38mm Wastegate

HKS AirFilter

Front Mount Intercooler

HKS HI Power Turbo back 3 1/2" exhaust system

Bosh 044 External Fuel Pump (in tank)

Iridiums

HKS Turbo Timer

Turbosmart Manual Boost

there's A link to my car, you can clearly hear the flutter

Wow, this thread is full of fail.

What has ceramic wheels got to do with failing due to flutter?

The ceramic wheel is on the exhaust side..

The returning air does NOT stall the turbo, and it does NOT make it spin the other way.

The only thing it will be doing is putting a bit of extra load on the fins of the compressor wheel as it tries to push air into the returning air.

Edited by bubba
Wow, this thread is full of fail.

What has ceramic wheels got to do with failing due to flutter?

The ceramic wheel is on the exhaust side..

The returning air does NOT stall the turbo, and it does NOT make it spin the other way.

The only thing it will be doing is putting a bit of extra load on the fins of the compressor wheel as it tries to push air into the returning air.

I agree with bubba, build a 25/30!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • I have been being VERY quiet about what you're alluding to, as it is something that ticks me off... The number of cars from factory that run coil overs is HUGE! Most of them these days do... The other part that annoys me, is people saying "Well all the incabin adjustable suspension is illegal by blah blah blah"... If that's the case, then why can I buy a car brand new that can do it if, FULL STOP in cabin adjustable suspension is illegal...   Also, I could just chuck some aftermarket shocks in my car, throw the stock springs on, after my blue slip, dump my super low springs back in. Same shock and spring style setup... Hell, they could also be the same colour springs etc.     I'm voting, BlueSlipper didn't want to touch the above car for some reason. Whether it be some sort of bias against the car, the owner, them maybe having previously done dodgy shit and now they're being super careful in case they get slapped in the face by the Gumbyment again... Find a new blueslip place.   And can confirm as you had said, yes there are holy bibles of vehicle heights, and all sorts of other suspension stuff. Heck your run of the mill mechanic, and tyre shop has access to all of that stuff. It's how they do wheel alignments...
    • Funny story Heading to Sydney this morning on the HWY there was some slow traffic, so I gave it the beans and midway through my overtaking "power run" I lost all power It seems that I missed a hose clamp,  and the MAF and filter went WiFi To make this more problematic, the little tool kit that lives in the boot, is sitting in the sun room at Goulburn......LOL Luckily for me I found a bit of steel on the side of the road that could be used like a rusty and bent flat head screw driver to tighten it up enough that it got me into Sydney, it is now all tight like a tiger with the aid of a 8mm socket Note to self: Use my brain and double check stuff, and always keep that little tool kit in the car for when I have a brain fart
    • Oh, and as for everyone with their fuel economy changes, I switch between E10 and 98 in the company car. Even do when I had personal cars that could run on E10. You know what changed my fuel economy in any noticeable way? How I drove, and where I drove. Otherwise, say on full tanks of just back and forth from work only (So same trips, same sort of traffic), couldn't notice a difference that I can correlate to the type of fuel in use. In the current vehicle, that's over 42L of USABLE fuel. While 98 is all "more energy dense", it also has higher knock resistance as it takes more energy to get it to ignite too. The longer hydrocarbons, typically more tightly bound. So running the same ignition map, can also produce less power, if there isn't enough time to get it all burnt through properly, as yep, the flame propagation speed is different from lower octane fuel to higher (Higher has a lower flame propagation, due to the more tightly bound and harder to self ignite funs. This is also typically where, a vehicle that is designed purely to run on 91 (Whether it be E10 or normal 91) usually sees absolutely no real world difference in fuel economy for the normal man, woman, or dog.
    • We've got some servos around me that have 91 with E10, 91 (no E10), 95, and 98. At those stations the change from 91 E10 to 91, is typically around 8c/L.   But lets not get started on the price of fuel in Oz. It's ridiculous. All the service stations around me, bar one, the price of fuel has been over the $2 mark per litre for the cheapest, 98 being around $2.45. That one service station is a CostCo, fuel from it comes from the same refineries, and makes no pitstops, it runs great, including the 98. In fact, I've had no issues on CostCo fuel, but plenty of issues at other stations!. The CostCo fuel, was $1.65 roughly this week for 94 with E10. $1.88 for 98. Servos directly across from it, $2.10 for 91 E10, and $2.48 for 98. The part I had to laugh at? If I drive multiple HOURS away from Brisbane, say out near Nanango, or Kingaroy, or even out to Goondiwindi, the price of their fuel, is the same as what it is at the CostCo... Oh, and that BP servo at Goondiwindi is HUGE and goes through epic turnover of fuel, so it's not sitting there for weeks going to shit. And what blows me away, my mate is one of the people who drives the Fuel Tanker all around QLD, delivering to all those places. At the same company his previous role was doing the "local haul" deliveries... Same truck, same driver, same pickup point it all comes from. So you tell me, how the hell it is 60c/L CHEAPER for fuel, when nearly all else is equal, except they require a B-Double to drive half a day out of Brisbane, and half a day back, every second day, compared to the delivery that can be under 30 minutes drive from the fuel pickup point... Not to mention, go five blocks down the road, and Ampol to Ampol will vary 30c/L... And I've had this conversation with my mate... The way it's priced, is just typical, pure and utter rubbish... He also does runs from Brisbane, to all over QLD, down to Newcastle, Sydney, Nowra, Melbourne, Geelong, and even out to parts of the NT depending on the companies needs. His main stuff is all the longer distance away from home for a few days at a time, then when he's back, he loves to just pickup extra shifts wherever he can in whichever truck, hence all the weird different places.   Oh, as for getting E10 into all the fuels in Australia... It was very quickly highlighted, that we don't have enough biomass available to use to make E10 sustainably like they require, and it would dramatically cut into our, and the worlds food chain supply...   I vote we all just start running on liquid methane gas... Plenty of that just getting tapped off at tips from underground decay... (Note, this is pure just stupid commenting. I could very easily highlight the reasons its not a good idea especially on scale...)
    • Am I correct in assuming that the R35's are getting the classic skyline haircut off the odometer?  Quick search on carsales, there are 33 08 and 09 GTR's for sale, only 2 of them have more then 100,000km's on them (116,075 and 110,000 respectively).  And somehow there are about 25 for sale with around 60,000kms? Looks like the classic skyline haircut to me =/
×
×
  • Create New...