Cams Group 2a Regs

[Smity42]

Hi Guys,

I'm in QLD, and the two closest tracks to me are QR and Lakeside which run just about everything under AASA, so I am building my track car to suit, but I am curious as to what CAMS class I might be able to run in if I head interstate or whatever.

Am I correct in understanding that group 2A is one of the most open? Ie as long as you do everything in the manual in regards to body, electrics, exhaust, etc, you are all good?

http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/02_race/c...oup_2A_Q210.pdf

So you can do whatever you like for engine swaps/mods, suspension, etc?

Cheers,

Martin

[zebra]

If you really want a free reign on the car than go 3d, 2a is more for modified production based cars

[hrd-hr30]

If you're thinking about NSW Supersprints and Hillclimbs, forget the CAMS manual - they don't really use it. They have a system involving Type 1 to 5 & SV. forget 1 & 2 they're for all but standard cars. 3 is like Improved Production, 4 is like Sport Sedans, 5 is for open wheeler and kit cars i think, And SV is Special Vehicles for things that don't fit anywhere else.

[Smity42]

If you really want a free reign on the car than go 3d, 2a is more for modified production based cars

Thanks mate, I was completely ignoring 3D as the car is not a "Sedan" but it seems that is not actually a requirement

I have just been reading the requirements for 3D, looks good.

It looks like engine swaps are OK, as long as the engine comes out of an eligble car? Is that correct?

Edited April 28, 2010 by Smity42

[zebra]

3d is more for space frame cars with 6L carby V8s or 3L turbo's with huge wheel and tyre combos.

But yeah try and aim for the type 4 cars for the supersprint series.

My car is based around a 2a car though

[hrd-hr30]

If you really want a free reign on the car than go 3d, 2a is more for modified production based cars

2A doesn't have to be production based. Its probably allows more freedoms than 3D Sport Sedans. You can build something like this from scratch in 2A Open:

[zebra]

WTF is that? lol

you are right sorry been a while since i went over the regs...getting 2a and 2f mixed together

[hrd-hr30]

its the most insanely fast thing anyone ever built out of canoes and race tape in their backyard. sub 40 seconds at Mt Cotton Hillclimb! Bill Norman's 1000cc motorcycle engined GEK Sports

[Smity42]

Thanks for the help guys, CAMS categories are confusing. I should have called this thread "What CAMS category can I run?"

AASA we can do pretty much whatever we want, so I am looking for a class that is very open.

The car is a 1982 Alfa Romeo GTV (Not GTV6. Stock engine is a 2L 4 cyl.

I want to be able to put in a larger capacity Alfa V6 from a newer alfa in it, and have pretty much free reign on engine mods.

I want faily open rules on suspension, brakes, etc.

I want to be able to use a GTV6 bonnet (Stock bonnet from the V6 model, these are much easier to get fibreglass copies of, and look cooler). I am happy to leave the rest of the body looking quite stock, including limited or no aero parts, spoilers, etc.

I am happy to run 2 seats (we often get to do passenger runs out our sprint days)

All the usual race car stuff, strip, cage, polycarbonate windows, etc.

Car has some body rust that I need to repair.

So what is a better option out of groups 2A or 3D? (Or any other suggestions?)

http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/02_race/c...oup_2A_Q210.pdf

http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/02_race/d...oup_3D_Q210.pdf

3D has been suggested. It looks good, but I am concerned about the following:

1 - I am concerned that cutting out rust may violate all the clauses about "standard factory sheetmetal including roof, pillars, door sills and the majority of the cockpit floor section", even if I weld in metal to replace that which is cut out?

2 - I am concerend that I won't be able to use the GTV6 bonnet, as it is not the standard bonnet for the "Defined Car" which would be a GTV. Would I get away with this as the GTV6 is basically an identical car but with a V6 engine? Could I used a GTV6 as the "Defined Car" even though the shell was originally a GTV?

3 - I am sure I read somewhere in this section that 3D requires the original block be used, but I can't find that in the regs. The regs seem to indicate you can run any engine, as long as it is sourced from an eligible car. Is this correct?

If points 1 & 3 aren't a problem, I guess I can logbook it with the std bonnet and just use the fibreglass one for non CAMS events...

For group 2A, it does not outline any regulations in regards to Engine, suspension, brakes, etc. Can I therefore assume that these are all free?

What do you all think is the best option?

Cheers,

Martin

[zebra]

Buy the sounds of your plans, Improved production would be the go.

But Im not sure if you could run the V6. As IP requires the same # of cylinders as factory..speak to a cams tech guy and ask if it could be built and log booked as the GTV V6.

[hrd-hr30]

nah, IPRA doesn't allow fibreglass panels. full steel and glass in IPRA.

You don't need to go into 3D Sport Sedans to do those kind of things anyway. Prod or Marque Sports is what you want. Marque Sports would allow all those mods, but they might get narky about the non standard (for the model) bonnet shape. GTV is on the list of approved 2B and 2F cars.

None of that matters unless you are circuit racing though, or doing a hillclimb at Mt Cotton with their over-officious scrutineers...

[zebra]

The alternative is get it AASA log booked

[Smity42]

Buy the sounds of your plans, Improved production would be the go.

But Im not sure if you could run the V6. As IP requires the same # of cylinders as factory..speak to a cams tech guy and ask if it could be built and log booked as the GTV V6.

From all that I've heard, I thought IP would be too restrictive for me, but I might read into the regs a bit more...

Thats a good idea RE log booking it as a GTV6. How do I find one of these CAMS tech guys?

You don't need to go into 3D Sport Sedans to do those kind of things anyway. Prod or Marque Sports is what you want. Marque Sports would allow all those mods, but they might get narky about the non standard (for the model) bonnet shape. GTV is on the list of approved 2B and 2F cars.

Unfortunately it isn't. The GTV6 is, and the more modern FWD GTVs (completely different car, just same name) are. But if I could log book it as a GTV6 as above this would be a good option.

None of that matters unless you are circuit racing though, or doing a hillclimb at Mt Cotton with their over-officious scrutineers...

The alternative is get it AASA log booked

Yep, I am starting to feel like the CAMS hassle isn't worth it hey...

[zebra]

Unless you plan on grid racing just go with the AASA book.

No real need imo to got through all the cams stuff if you are just going to do sprints and hillclimbs.

Im fairly certain iRace only requires AASA as well.

[hrd-hr30]

I was registered in the CAMS Hillclimb Series this year. Asked for my money back at the last round after the scrutes came up with 1,000,001 reasons why my car was ineligible. And I was only cheating the same rules that all the other cars in my class were! lol

[zebra]

that sucks...what did they come up with?

[hrd-hr30]

First it was "bonnet vents: safety issue". I pointed out the dozen or so other cars that had already cruised through scrutineering with bonnet vents...

Then it was "carbon bonnet: eligibility issue". Even though that scrutineer then admitted he didn't know what class I was in... Pretty obvious how fairly they were treating the car already. I showed them that Marque Sports allows composite materials for body panels.

Next came "bonnet vents: eligibility issue" And while this is correct, the replacement bonnet must be the same external shape, I pointed out that the class winner from the first round (who is also the series winer from last year) had flutes/louvres cut into his bonnet which is equally illegal. But fair enough, I said "No problem, I'll go home and fit my standard bonnet, but that Triumph better not be running with his illegal bonnet when I get back!" lol

Then it was "car is not on the 2B & 2F eligibility list" - pointed them to the Series Standing Regulations that specified the class as 'Marque Sports, including road registered sports cars'. Wrong again...

By this stage I think they had determined not going to let me run out of sheer blody-mindedness! And with all 4 scrutes, the CoC and 3 CAMS Stewards, they finally came up with "that car is not recognised by CAMS or the FIA". At which point I pretty much told them they could stick their hillclimb somewhere uncomfortable, it simply isn't worth this much hassle for a handful of 46second runs around thier track! I pointed out it was far from the 1st 180SX to have competed there, but if that was true that its not eligible to compete in CAMS events because its an unrecognised car they shouldn't have accepted the entry or series registration in the first place and should therefore refund my entry & series registration fees. And they did.

I love CAMS

[zebra]

LOL - CAMS and ANDRA are same same....i was inelligable for points in the willowbank street series because I had a flat shift setup with my PFC Pro...which is technically not allowed..but i know of 3 cars that had delay boxes and 2-steps in them.

So i decided corners are more fun and am gonna run under AASA

[hrd-hr30]

AASA is where its at! Run what ya brung fun ftw!

[Duncan]

lol did you sleep with the cheif scruit's daughter daughter or something harry?

Smity42, just so you are aware when all of these rules talk about original car they mean something more like "model". So for R32 skylines for example you can log book the car as anything based off the R32 chasis like gtst, gts, gts4, gtr, n1 whatever. my car started life as a povo gtr and is now officially a Vspec II N1 according to cams .

Not sure if that works for your alfa...but if possible you should stick to improved prod - categories everywhere for sprints/hillclimbs/racing and not as hard to get near the front as sports sedan. That advice only holds for non-turbo cars - to protect the old rust buckets, IPRA have made any turbo car as uncompetitive as possible by enforcing 38mm restrictors.