Suspension Q's (by A Noobie)

[buzz350]

Youve probably heard this more times than not

I bought myself a r33 s1 gts and have bought some king springs to lower the front end (as rear end was previously lowered when i bought the car)

ive been told that if i put the king springs in the skyline it will throw the camber out? is it a simple reallignment or does it involve a camber kit so there is not excessive camber and tyre wear.

im doing this on a budget as im only a 1st year apprentice.

thanks, buzz.

[MrStabby]

Changing height will throw out the geometry, and typically the standard adjustments don't have enough scope to get you back to a good alignment, but it all depends on how far you lower. Also dont lower the front end too much as it can make it understeer. IIRC you want the distance from the wheel centerline to the top of the guard to be 10mm more at the front than at the back.

There were some posts by SydneyKid (IIRC in the group buy section) where he described what was needed based on the ride height.

[bigmikespec]

If you are a first year apprentice leave the suspension alone; lowering it will mean you need to correct the camber. If you dont get a camber kit you are up for more money to pay for tyres wearing out.

[alr33x]

If you are a first year apprentice leave the suspension alone; lowering it will mean you need to correct the camber. If you dont get a camber kit you are up for more money to pay for tyres wearing out.

if he is only lowering using springs he isnt going to get very low thus having minimal effect so yeh probably get an alignment and job done.

you WONT need front camber arms unless you got big fk off wheels and i doubt that.

[buzz350]

thanks guys for all the replys and wisdom.

am going to get wheel alignment on weeked and see how she goes

ive got 18 X 8's i think (deffs know their 18's) with 235 45 rubber on them so they aint big fk off wheels.

my meachanic said " I WILL NEED" camber arms, are there any out there that are decent price for quality?? just want to check pricing just in case the worst happens.

Thanks again,

Buzz

[blk94r33]

I lowered my car (S1 R33 GTS) 1" all round, and have 16" rims with 205/55 tyres. When I did it I took it for a wheel alignment at the same place my work uses, the guy is a gun at suspension/steering/tyres, and said when the alignment was done that the adjusters were nearly at maximum and any lower/bigger wheels would require a camber kit.

I'd recommend putting a bush kit in it now as it guarantees:

-You won't destroy tyres

-The car won't feel like a shopping trolley

-Any further suspension adjustments/modifications won't require the kit

Or, you could lower it, get it aligned and see how it goes and put the kit in if required?

[MrStabby]

Wheel size has no effect on alignment. Some people purposely change their alignment in attempts stop tyres from rubbing, but that's a horrible hack because it means the alignment is not right....

[bigmikespec]

if he is only lowering using springs he isnt going to get very low thus having minimal effect so yeh probably get an alignment and job done.

you WONT need front camber arms unless you got big fk off wheels and i doubt that.

What is "not very low"? I did not say cambers arms I said kit, get a set of adjustable bushes to correct the camber from lowering the car. Otherwise in a short period you will be up for new tyres.

[simpletool]

Lowering the front of a skyline with king springs doesn't usually result in an overly low car - although it is as low as you'd want to go. The camber won't be too bad (around 2° ,maybe less), unless the front end is damaged. The biggest issue with tyre wear is more likely to come from poorly aligned toe, which can be adjusted easily, heck it is usually the ONLY thing that tyre shops actually do adjust.

Anyway, if you lower with king springs you will require a realignment (mostly to toe). The camber will become more negative but it shouldn't be extreme at all. You won't require camber arms, if you do then something is bent. You might want to go a camber kit (eccentric bushes and a castor kit). But before that I'd get some decent new dampers (shock absorbers). The bush kits are useful because not only do they help with alignment but they replace OLD worn out degraded bushes which cause play in the steering and suspension. The caster on the front is also usually a bit dodgy, you want a split left/right to reduce the drift to the left that happens on highways and major roads due to the camber of the road away from the centre line (sloping road to the left).

Anyway, 18 x 8" wheels with 30 to 40, offset will wear more on the inside edges anyway. Get 1 or 2mm toe-in and it'll reduce tyre wear. Get 0mm toe if you want more responsive turn-in. (yes, it makes a difference!).

Not very low is a 25 to 35mm drop from standard. Standard height is hard to define now due to sagging springs and compressed rubber bushes plus wheel heights etc, so it's better to measure from centre of wheel to guard. Sydneykid mentioned heights of front = 350mm, rear = 340mm. Obviously you don't have to be exact.

FWIW. This gives legal ground clearance with normal diameter wheels and about 10mm from top of rubber to the guard.

Edited December 6, 2010 by simpletool