"hacking" Electronics - Piracy Or Innovation

[EeLeYe]

They released firmware update 3.56 yesterday. And all the description says is, "security update".

[DivHunter]

The "hack" in question enables unsigned code to be run, having said that there is no support for a backup manager (the thing you use to backup games). To get it you just download the hacked 3.55 firmware and install it like you would any other firmware update.

I haven't personally played with it but as far as I know there aren't any options for backing up or pirating games. Developers don't have anywhere else to jump ship to. The 360 was hacked years ago and it's as simple as flashing your drive and you can play burnt games. The Wii is even easier, you basically install a mod chip and just download games from a torrent site and run them off a portable hdd. Sony has done a good job at keeping the pirates away. The previous known hacks are buggy and difficult for even an intermediate user to understand. it's also a lot of f**king around. I have used the previous mod chips but there wasn't much point as the new games required a certain firmware anyway.

I understand that it's illegal and all that jazz but do they really have anything to worry about? 98% of Ps3 owners wouldn't even know there's a hack available for it, if they did they probably wouldn't know how to use it or what the point of it is. Sony will and probably already have released a new update patching the security hole.

No, there is no way for Sony to patch the actual problem. It's not a way to run unsigned code, that is just one consequence of the real issue. The way Sony signs code is fatally flawed and has been reverse engineered without ever being hacked, the primary key was simply calculated due to a mathematical error on Sony's part.

So unlike the 360 and Wii which must be modified the PS3 will just run any code that has been signed because as far as it knows Sony has signed it no matter what it is. It's the eisiest of all 'hacks' to use for any console. The other thing is that no amount of firmware updates can fix it because the PS3 has to be able to read the update meaning anyone can read the update, modify the new firmware and continue on with whatever software they like.

This is the total destruction of Sony's ability to control what is run on a PS3 (and PSP) and under Australian / British and US law it's perfectly legal. The EULA will not be tested in court because it would fail and Sony know it. Pirated GT5 etc has already been shown to work on previous firmware.

Edited January 27, 2011 by DivHunter

[EeLeYe]

I just saw I've got a -2 for the first post. What were people expecting to read about when they clicked the topic - "How to hack electronics"???

[GTRPowa]

I read the Skyline manual and I swear near the start it says "No not modify this vehicle in any way."

It's a grey area of argument. Apple recently lost it's battle in the U.S. to Jailbreaking. Whether there is more to the saga in the future, time will tell, however:

Quote: Jonathan Handel, an attorney for TroyGould in Los Angeles specializing in entertainment and technology, said the decision could open Apple to lawsuits against its practice of preventing the use of certain software on its devices. “When someone buys a kitchen blender, they don’t expect it to refuse to make a margarita,” Handel said in an interview. “And when they buy an iPhone, they don’t expect it to not run reasonable software.”

I believe the same with the Playstation. We've seen it can run different OS's - Even before being able to install different OS's officially, you could still do it. The hardware walling of the 3D RSX chip is the main reason any 'Other OS' hasn't picked up mainstream support for the PS3. Sure you can run a different OS, but since you can only do basic things with the OS (even, back in the day, it could hardly play video clip within linux) nobody will bother with the technology.

Giving the end user flexibility can give the product many many years of service, and during that time earn the company money in repairs/parts/royalties/online subscriptions/etc. Look at the GTR's - so mod happy, but back int he day the mod's weren't simply on the shelf. It took a degree of mainstream acceptance to form the demand, which made the parts in bulk, which started a huge cult. At the end of the day, this keeps these cars in service, and Nissan are gaining big $$ when us suckers have to buy parts off them.

Multiplayer gaming is another example, look at the longevity of games you couldn't mod easily, specifically MW2. Great gameplay ruined by a limited engine, now only the diehards play it. Sure, you may think, "They'll get more money from the next game since everyone is already bored with MW2" - That's true, but it's 2011, people are smartening up, and after 2-3 games of this caliber coming out, they wouldn't have a mainstream game anymore, nobody would buy it, the franchise is dead.

There is a harsh balance of economics in play that can often determine if a product's flexibility (and lifespan) is limited. By installing other operating systems, and allowing full access to the RSX chip, Sony could pave way for pirates. But at the other end of the spectrum they'd be lining up their next product in such a way everyone would want it because of it's flexibility. Perhaps at this stage they would even consider moving from their 'software sales' model back to 'hardware sales' - Which is what Originally got Sony where they are anyways.

/rant

[GTRPowa]

Then there is the crying over the PS3 code signing, if someone does something like that for software on PC / Mac / Linux they are patted on the back for finding a vulnerability and exposing it when it's not repaired in a reasonable amount of time. Microsoft and ro Apple don't then take them (often security firms) to court. They might be irritated but it's essentially a fault in their product.

It's interesting how the process works. Eg: MS Blaster was identified around 9 months before the initial infestation. MS knew it, the people who found the holes and told MS, knew they knew it. In the end, it was the lack of Microsoft's care of the issue that had the worm coded. Memory serves me that even in the worm there was a hidden message to Bill Gates saying something along the lines of "Stop releasing new software until you fix the bugs in your current software." That message was never programmed in a way to show up on people's screens, but to be found by the person reverse engineering the worm.

[.:: GimpS-R34 ::.]

So CoD Black Ops making $1b US in 6 weeks constitutes the game as being a dead franchise?

[GTRPowa]

I didn't buy Black Ops. But you're also referring to the franchise as a whole. I was referring to the PC component of the franchise. Take MW2's IWNet for a perfect example. The negative feedback in the PC community was huge. Some 250,000 people who actually bothered to sign the petition. Many more who didn't bother, but were still annoyed by the bad coding that plagues that game to this very day. From what I read, the new version has dedicated servers now? If this is the case, it's a far cry from what they were planning to do earlier (use IWNet in Black Ops). But eitherway it went, it's considered very unpopular.

I remember playing BF1942 for years, then BF2, etc. They built their playerbase from making good, long lasting, moddable games. Same with cod. That franchise started with the PC community, and it's modability was what made it so popular to play. It was nonetheless the same with any Quake, UT, and even BF release. Any game that didn't support good modding (SWAT, Theif, etc) wasn't going to (and didn't) last as long, and definitely weren't going to bring a bigger crowd next time without some type of paid media hype.

Nobody playing the console versions is hardly going to tell the differences, unless they're an avid PC gamer and knew how green the grass used to be with gaming. And if it was so bad for developers back then, it's amazing they managed to get so big now...

Edited January 28, 2011 by GTRPowa

[mad082]

I sort of don't get the point of getting a console to mod it. If you want something to put different programs and applications, etc, on then get a pc. I see a console as someting that i can simply put the game into and play it without having to worry whether i have compatible hardware, etc.

However i am somewhat hypocritical in this though. I have rooted my phone to run a newer version of android but that is because after a few months of the phone company saying an update is on it's way they turned round and said that they were no longer going to update it (except in america) so i was stuck on android 1.5 (and a buggy version of it at that) which is somewhat obsolete as a lot of new apps won't work on it.

[GTRPowa]

I sort of don't get the point of getting a console to mod it. If you want something to put different programs and applications, etc, on then get a pc. I see a console as someting that i can simply put the game into and play it without having to worry whether i have compatible hardware, etc.

However i am somewhat hypocritical in this though. I have rooted my phone to run a newer version of android but that is because after a few months of the phone company saying an update is on it's way they turned round and said that they were no longer going to update it (except in america) so i was stuck on android 1.5 (and a buggy version of it at that) which is somewhat obsolete as a lot of new apps won't work on it.

Agreed on the console point, especially if you only play games on it. From memory, people were using stacks of Xbox 1's back in the day as servers. Cheap, stackable, and flexible once you had Windows on them.

And a note on phone operating systems. If they made them open source, we'd have some awesome operating systems for phones out there, no bugs, very flexible. Unfortunately for Nokia, etc, it's too flexible, and won't make them $$$.

[EeLeYe]

It's official; Sony have started PERMANENTLY banning "jailbroken" PS3 systems.

First you will receive this email,

"A circumvention device and/or unauthorized or pirated software currently resides on your PlayStation®3 system. Immediately cease use and remove all circumvention devices and delete all unauthorized or pirated software from your PlayStation®3 system. Failure to do so will result in termination of your access to the PlayStation®Network and access to Qriocity services through your PlayStation®3 system."

And if you do nothing about it, you will then receive this email,

"Notice: Access to the PlayStation®Network and access to Qriocity services through your PlayStation ®3 system has been terminated permanently due to the use of unauthorized circumvention devices and unauthorized or pirated software on your PlayStation®3 system. This use violates the terms of both the "System Software License Agreement for the PlayStation®3 System" and the "Terms of Services and User Agreement" for the PlayStation®Network/Qriocity and its Community Code of Conduct provision."

http://au.gamespot.com/news/6299760.html?tag=latestheadlines%3Btitle%3B1 <<< rest of article

Personally, good on them for banning people with pirated software, but it's bullshit for the people who just wanted to use their ps3 for their own programming.

[Mayuri Krab]

Just buy 2 PS3s?

One for playing all the hacked/pirated stuff & one for playing the few games that you want online.

I remember a friend did this when the X-box (original one) 1st came out & Microsoft were banning people with modded Xboxs from going online, he just bought a 2nd one (locally 2nd hand, his 1st one where bought from China where it was pre-modded to buy pirated stuff) for playing (the few games) online.

Neither way doesn't bother me since its PC for me all the way.

[DivHunter]

It's official; Sony have started PERMANENTLY banning "jailbroken" PS3 systems.

First you will receive this email,

"A circumvention device and/or unauthorized or pirated software currently resides on your PlayStation®3 system. Immediately cease use and remove all circumvention devices and delete all unauthorized or pirated software from your PlayStation®3 system. Failure to do so will result in termination of your access to the PlayStation®Network and access to Qriocity services through your PlayStation®3 system."

And if you do nothing about it, you will then receive this email,

"Notice: Access to the PlayStation®Network and access to Qriocity services through your PlayStation ®3 system has been terminated permanently due to the use of unauthorized circumvention devices and unauthorized or pirated software on your PlayStation®3 system. This use violates the terms of both the "System Software License Agreement for the PlayStation®3 System" and the "Terms of Services and User Agreement" for the PlayStation®Network/Qriocity and its Community Code of Conduct provision."

http://au.gamespot.com/news/6299760.html?tag=latestheadlines%3Btitle%3B1 <<< rest of article

Personally, good on them for banning people with pirated software, but it's bullshit for the people who just wanted to use their ps3 for their own programming.

Shouldn't take too long for software that reports the correct firmware version to Sony.

[boiracer]

I

Personally, good on them for banning people with pirated software, but it's bullshit for the people who just wanted to use their ps3 for their own programming.

my thoughts exactly

[Beer Baron]

well they can only ban you from using the PSN etc. most people who wanted jailbroken PS3s for programming, or media centre use or as a super computer or whatever else they are doing are not likely to be using it to play games online over the PSN are they? so it really only affects the people who were running it that way to use pirated games. there may be a handful of people in the world who had a jailbroken PS3, and had zero pirated games and still wanted to use PSN but it wouldn't be many. sucks for them, but all it really does is weed out the people with pirated software.

[oweban]

well they can only ban you from using the PSN etc. most people who wanted jailbroken PS3s for programming, or media centre use or as a super computer or whatever else they are doing are not likely to be using it to play games online over the PSN are they? so it really only affects the people who were running it that way to use pirated games. there may be a handful of people in the world who had a jailbroken PS3, and had zero pirated games and still wanted to use PSN but it wouldn't be many. sucks for them, but all it really does is weed out the people with pirated software.

That would be me if I'd done it All I want is to run something like XBMC on my PS3 and turn it into a true media centre that can play any/all movies I throw at it, either via network or external USB. Zero piracy; not interested in screwing the people who bring me games.

[Mayuri Krab]

So not buying a PS3 now...

[EeLeYe]

Hacking group possibly targeting console maker over recent legal action against PS3 jailbreaker George Hotz.

http://au.gamespot.com/news/6306945.html?tag=latestheadlines%3Btitle%3B2

[oweban]

Hacking group possibly targeting console maker over recent legal action against PS3 jailbreaker George Hotz.

http://au.gamespot.com/news/6306945.html?tag=latestheadlines%3Btitle%3B2

DDOS != hack.... Not saying you've got it wrong, just hating how it's being reported.

DDOS is like a thousand people standing in front of a store so you can't get in.

Hacking is busting into the place at night and trashing the entire store.

[EeLeYe]

Following statement from PS3 maker, hacker group Anonymous says it will cease efforts to bring down PSN due to impact on consumers.

http://au.gamespot.com/news/6307284.html?tag=latestheadlines%3Btitle%3B1

I guess this "Anonymous" hacker has caused more problems than help...

[EeLeYe]

Game giant and George "GeoHot" Hotz reach settlement that sees the latter agree to a permanent injunction to not post PS3 security information.

http://au.gamespot.com/news/6307711.html?tag=latestheadlines%3Btitle%3B1

Worked out quite nicely I say...