Bending The Rules

[sav man]

I understand they got out of the sport (and assume this was purchased around then?) and know where you're coming from, but I still think that a bit of nouse would be used in case they ever wanted to re-join.

I'm not saying it's completely discountable, but even I went to a lot of effort to sneak out the Hemi V8 in the Targa car prior

to the finish scrutineering. And I'm small fry compared to a factory team!

surly the hemi was a factory option for the skyline?

[phunky_monkey]

Subaru ran a class in the ARC a few years back for 2.5 RS Imprezas, which I was lucky enough to compete in, but as 1 make series which was primarily being run by their marketing dept it was unreal the cheating that was going on! Spec C shells, Cars that were allowed nothing more than a control exhaust blowing flames, and making 100awkw, when ours made 80 at the hubs... (with an illegal STI fuel pump) Cars with 3 open diffs, that would spin the inside rear driving around a car park... Funny thing is that as one of the people who was not doing that and was left looking slow because of it, my frustration was with the Scruitineers etc for not finding it, the guys doing it, well good on them for being that creative.

That's flat out cheating though, no creativity in that. That sort of cheating doesn't progress anyone or anything.

[Marlin]

What's the point of having class rules then? May as well just compete in a "no rules" form of racing.

I have a competitive sailing background and we have one design classes where nothing can be changed from the manufacturer. Think Olympic classes with boats such as Laser, 470 and 49er's.

The idea is to give everyone a level playing field. You should be able to hop from one boat (or car) to another in the same class and the only difference is the driver.

Then there are development classes which virtually have no rules except "must be 12 feet long" for example. This way you get to choose what suits you. If you want to be creative and smart, go the development class. If you want fair/level racing go one design class.

To hear about the cheating in the RS Impreza challenge is absolutely woeful. It breaks all the rules and ideas behind a one make series.

It's a moral and ethical issue for me.

Getting away with it cause you didn't get caught doesn't cut it with me.

I completely agree with you.

I too am an ex state level competetive sailor, from Sabot to Hobie 16's. I think its much easier to spot illegal things on boats compares to engine powered cars. I've always maintained that the rule bending only cheats yourself, so why bother, plus its just not worth the added stress of being caught nor the worry about keeping it hush. Too hard IMO.

Obviously though, plenty of people enjoy cheating, and see winning as much more important that competing within the rules and sprt's spirit.

[nismoman]

^^^ Cool another sailor that's into motorsport! I sailed Flying Ants to 16ft skiffs and some yachts too.

Off topic, but don't you think sailors have good "feel" for driving? I mean like limits of grip, brake thresholds and the affects of small steering inputs?

Back on topic,

If it's outside the spirit of the rules and you win because of it, then you have one hollow victory on your hands.

Edited February 20, 2011 by nismoman

[Marlin]

i think there's something in what you suggest, plenty of successful sailors have done well in motorsport. I know several of the really good Targa blokesa re keen sailors

[Beer Baron]

another old seaman here. I mean sailor. started as a young boy racing juniors then flying ants, 125s, flying 11s, lasers ,then on to 16ft skiffs. then on to offshore yacht racing. still enjoy the little boats though. nothing like hanging out on trapeze on a skiff or even a 125 etc with a good wind up just inches off the water doing 15knots feels like a fairly good clip!

the downside is now at 6ft2 and 'ample' in size I'm not quite as nimble off the trapeze and under the boom for a quick tack as I used to be as a teenager. that's why I like cars. just up the power. on a boat there is only so much sail you can run!! but power is only limited by your wallet. and I can still bend myself into the odd exige, formula ford etc and other stupid tiny cars.

[Duncan]

I find it hard to believe a factory team would sell a factory car with an illegal engine.

lol, aren't you the one that keeps posting up targa spec evos with 2.2l motors?

the one make series are the biggest places for cheating...it is too hard to get to the front otherwise. the one I used to run in was the safest type - the promoter prepared the cars so you know other competitors weren't cheating. even so there was a 10% variance in power across the grid which was a lifetime when you are trying to catch someone on a straight.

[Marlin]

Big difference between a factory team selling a blatantly illegal car and some fkn toss pot who can't drive a greasy stick up a dogs arse just givin up and selling his stroked cheater as is!

[PHaT MR30]

Big difference between a factory team selling a blatantly illegal car and some fkn toss pot who can't drive a greasy stick up a dogs arse just givin up and selling his stroked cheater as is!

It was well known your 32 was an RB30 though RB20 couldn't have gone that quick!

[nismoman]

another old seaman here. I mean sailor. started as a young boy racing juniors then flying ants, 125s, flying 11s, lasers ,then on to 16ft skiffs. then on to offshore yacht racing. still enjoy the little boats though. nothing like hanging out on trapeze on a skiff or even a 125 etc with a good wind up just inches off the water doing 15knots feels like a fairly good clip!

the downside is now at 6ft2 and 'ample' in size I'm not quite as nimble off the trapeze and under the boom for a quick tack as I used to be as a teenager. that's why I like cars. just up the power. on a boat there is only so much sail you can run!! but power is only limited by your wallet. and I can still bend myself into the odd exige, formula ford etc and other stupid tiny cars.

haha! Yeah the good ol days hey? Worst thing with sailing for me was very light air. It was so slow and boring! Oh look I got overtaken by a bit of seaweed! YAY! Also it lightened my wallet as well, I spend $25k one year on a new rig for the 16ft skiff.

Good way to be aware of your senses though. I could always feel the effect of more vang or cunningham on boatspeed and the same with shifting my bodyweight.

I'd hang out for 25-30knots NorEaster or Southerly just to get a buzz and that happend only a few races a year.

With fanging the car at the track, it's like it's 50knots everyday all day long. Huge adrenalin rush.

Edited February 22, 2011 by nismoman

[Beer Baron]

yeah sailing gets expensive too. even when I was racing my own old wood junior with my many times repaired sails there were blokes there with carbon fibre hulls (give me a break we were fking 12) and kevlar masts, special prototype sail materials etc.

plus like you say not much fun when you are mostly sailing in 10-15knot winds. need a good solid 20 to get things humming.

I have heard it said that BOAT is an acronym. it stands for "break out another thousand". which is pretty accurate.

[XRATED]

Another sea dog here.... I don't sail (cant stand it) I work on large private motoryachts. If you think regular boats are bad.... mega yachts are 'bust out another mill' or two.... Some of these guys really don't know what they get themselves into! ha ha ha

The cheating that goes on in offshore power boat racing in the states is amazing!!! Fire extinguishers filled with nitrous to high pressure nitro-methane injection systems! not to mentions boats so thin you can see through the hull before paint in places... One event, somone got caught adding a second supercharger (compound supercharging) just before a race... it was actually quite a cool set up, effectivly a 'quick release' supercharger!!! ha ha ha.

I'm all up for getting creative, but nitrous oxide in a fire extinguisher??? hmmm....

Edited March 19, 2011 by XRATED

[ARTZ]

" Ask any racer. Any real racer. It don't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning's winning."

Sorry ,couldn't resist

[31GUN]

There is a difference between rule bending and rule interpretation too.

Example- GrpC Bluebird.

Rule book says the boost adjustment had to be under the bonnet.

And it was, the cable ran from the turbo, behind the firewall, and came out on the drivers side with an adjuster knob.

Worked well, adjuster under bonnet, officials happy.

Behind the firewall though, cable dovetails, and another adjuster is behind the oil light on the dash.

Car conforms to rule.

Same setup on the Exa too, only on this car you wound up the ignition key.

[lmanion]

The one I can think of atm is the Toyota rally cars with their funky turbos in the 90's. Also in F1 there have been all sorts of 'creative' interpretations of the rules such as double diffusers, f-ducts and red bulls flexi front wing ( which noone has figured out how they are doing it just yet) and that is just in the last 2 years. Also in the 90's there was Benneton running traction control and Mclarens dual brake pedals.

[toffy]

I race hq's , personally i can't stand the 'rule bending' that goes on , i always thought classes like this were to showcase good drivers not how much you can get away with. I could go on for hours about things i've heard about dodgy shit peole have done , from the age old nitrous in the cage to volvo brakes on the front , milling parts inside diffs so the sungears lock up under load , angle plaining heads and so on . i'm quite adimant about adhering to the rules . As someone previously said , it's a hollow victory if you have to cheat to win.