R33 Engine/turbo Advice

[GoHard]

G'day fellow Aussie enthusiasts,

'Names Sam. I am in a bit of strife at the moment so forgive me for not going to the 'Introduce yourself' section first. I was planning on eventually making it here, but if I may just cut to the chase.

Sams my name, Im a Kiwi born and bred living in Wollongong NSW and... I love Skylines

Anywho- I just bought a 1996 GTS-T Series II on Wednesday. Took her for a spin last Sunday and my (very uneducated) verdict of the car was allround good (nothing obviously wrong with it) So I picked her up from a bloke in Sydney Wednesday arvo (Private sale) drove back to the Gong (just over an hour) went to work the next day (yesterday) all is good. Lunch comes around and I went to maccas... Holy crap here we go. Theres a bit of a hill on the way so (just normaly, not going hard) kept the revs up for it. Apon changing gears MASSIVE burst of blue smoke poured out of the exaust. I have 1.5 days experience owning a car with a turbo so I had/have NO IDEA about them btw. when I get back to work, massive smell of burnt oil. Put my cheek on the ground and there is oil burning off the exaust. appears to be leaking out of the (sorry im not mechanicly minded at all) "Top main cover thingy" Lovely, its getting better. Put it down to the turbo because it only does the smoke when the turbo is getting a decent boost. (on-ramp on a freeway, up a hill etc) but then why at the same time my engine start leaking. no sign of oil leak until the blowing of the smoke. So I took her in this morning to a 'mate of a mate''s mechanic. I can tell this mechanic is trustworthy, but he doesn't touch performance cars anymore he said. just a service kinda shack. He said yeah its probably the Turbo. Then I told him to take it for a spin and give it a little hit (he was just reving it to check for smoke, very little smoke). He comes back feeling very simpathetic for me... He reckons the ammount of smoke is saying it could well be more than just the turbo... Engine has a fair bit ammount blow-by too.

SO. I guess I have 3 options:

1st Piss it off and loose a massive ammount of money

2nd Take it into a Turbo place and apparently have them tell me the engine is screwed without really knowing

3rd Find a complete setup (reconditioned, imported, other) and have the engine bay replaced...

If I drive with little/no boosting the engine runs smooth as hell. I can even get it up to 7 pound with no smoke, which makes me think the engine is fine. but then there is the oil coming from the cover so I dont know. Its just as I said hills etc will cause this (and loooooooots of smoke when it does) I am after advice on what I should do. If there was no oil leak, and no smoke I wouldn't know there was somthing wrong. It drives fine. If I have to do the extreme, for piece of mind I guess would like a full overhaul so I guess I would ask to start there. What options, and at what price would I be looking at to get a new engine/turbo? or are there any other suggestions that I may not have thought of?

Ill try to put a couple of pics here of the car, Im not sure if this is gonna work. I seriously am a n00b. Please dont hate on me for that, im a little depressed at the mo. Cheers

[GoHard]

Sorry,

also if there is anyone in the Illawarra who can recommend a place for me to check the turbo out that would be good. If I go through with getting the turbo sorted, what process and cost would I be looking at? Cheers

[jrm]

What boost level are you actually running at peak? Do you know if it's still the factory turbo? Do you know what modifications have been done? (Can obviously see an FMIC)

Pictures of the engine bay might help too ..

[GoHard]

Hey Jenna,

Yeah its had a few things done to it. as far as I know the turbo is stock, but it does have a boost controller that I ironicly (believe it or not) have left off until I get a bit more adapted to the car. It was a rainy and dark drive home, and as you can sorta see the headlights arn't that flash (the only bad thing about the exterior) so I left it off. Next day the smoke so I have never actually got to use it. its a dual one that can be adjusted, but apparently it has been tuned low-9psi and high-11psi and can be adjusted higher and lower. It has a aftermarket fuel pump, FMIC, one of them noisy friggin BOV's, 2.5" exaust, ummmmmmm... thats about the only mods that I can think of, drivetrain related (they were listed with the carsales listing, but its gone now so I have no more record) the only camera I have at the moment is my iphone, so Ill give it a go and see how they turn out... but for what needs to be seen I guess quality will be an issue. Ill be back. Cheers

Edit: Sorry I forgot about the boost question

I dont actually like doing it, so when I do boost it i'm not really looking at the guage, but I did see it reach 7 once when i actually looked. and another modification I forgot is the airfilter. Dunno what it is but it looks like a big fluffy mushroom (fair saturated in oil I might ad)

Edited April 8, 2011 by GoHard

[jrm]

I'd be removing the BOV and fitting a stock one if you can - these are known to cause all sorts of issues (stalling coming to a stop at lights, 'popping'/over-fuelling between gear-changes, etc).

If you're back on no boost controller, your maximum boost should be 5/7psi (with a change at 4500rpm, if it's still hooked up) or just 5psi if it's not. Doesn't sound like it's running that though.

Safe boost for the factory turbo is up to about 10-11psi, though you may run into R&R (rich&retard) even at those levels - causing all sorts of popping, hesitation, and carrying on.

Wish I had a better idea/suggestion about the oil/blue smoke you had occur - hopefully someone else will have an idea. Lots of blow-by is more an indication that your piston rings are on the way out. Have you considered getting a leak down compression test? That should give you a good idea of the state of the motor.

If you know or can find someone trustworthy you could also try taking the front piping off the turbo and checking for play in the turbo as that is a good indication of whether it's on the way out. If it's been boosted hard a lot, it certainly could do it (and would result in oil seals leaking, etc).

[GoHard]

Well it was in my original plans to get rid of the BOV, but it doesn't seem at the top of my priority list at the moment.

Im sorry but I dont't quite understand you about the 5psi or 7psi. Sorry this just reminds me of another mod There is a aftermarket boost and water gauge also. when you say 4,500rpm if its still hooked up, are you talking about the factory boost gauge on the dash?

Im about to do a run down to the shops. I shall give it a bit, change at 4,500 and record my boost? Anything else you would like me to try jot down? Vacuum?

[jrm]

Well it was in my original plans to get rid of the BOV, but it doesn't seem at the top of my priority list at the moment.

Im sorry but I dont't quite understand you about the 5psi or 7psi. Sorry this just reminds me of another mod There is a aftermarket boost and water gauge also. when you say 4,500rpm if its still hooked up, are you talking about the factory boost gauge on the dash?

Im about to do a run down to the shops. I shall give it a bit, change at 4,500 and record my boost? Anything else you would like me to try jot down? Vacuum?

The factory wastegate on your car should be set at 5psi - so this is the 'default' boost that the turbo will run at. However, there is a factory-controlled boost-control setup in our cars that activates at 4500rpm. When this solenoid activates on the boost/vacuum lines, it will bleed air and the boost will increase to approximately 7psi from 4500rpm up. This does not relate to the factory boost gauge in the dash.

If you have an aftermarket boost gauge, and the boost controller you have is disconnected, you should hopefully be hitting 5-6psi on boost - though you've previously mentioned 7psi. If you push it harder, does it go beyond this? Makes me wonder if maybe you don't have split boost/vacuum lines which are causing boost spikes ..

[GoHard]

Hmmm... Thanks for the clear up there. OK Im gonna take it for a spin now, and Ill check it out. When I said 7psi, I ment I have litterally seen it at 7 only once, and I wouldn't be surprised if I was at over 4,500 because it was a 'check to see how high it gets' glance, and read bang on 7... But I could have read it wrong, Ill check. before I go, just to confirm 'disconnecting' the boost controller and flicking the power button to off do the same thing? man testing this out is going to upset some people behind me. Just to let you know the ammount of smoke I'm talking... umm... looks thicker than a burnout pad with something VERY powerful burning rubber. ALOT of smoke... I had to get infront of a car today so I gave it a bit of a boost and then had to stop at red lights and im just sitting there with about 10 cars all submerged in my oil smoke and there was a cop up ahead. Not a nice feeling.

[GoHard]

Ok I took it for a spin and can confirm it maxes out at 7psi. I think it could be holding itself at 5psi until a certain rpm, but much lower than 4,500. It will easily be on 7psi by 3,000rpm maybe even lower.

[jrm]

If you look in your engine bay over on the passenger-side, near the right strut tower, you should have something like:

In that image, they have a bit circled in red on it, that silver thing is the boost solenoid. In that image it's been unplugged on one side (not sure why). I've taken that image from the thread about how to force high boost mode:

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/42895-howto-rb25det-high-boost-mode-with-standard-solenoid/

Anyway, Can you confirm if the plug coming out of that is plugged in, whether it has boost hoses hooked up still, etc?

It also may have been completely removed when they added the other boost controller though.

The other thing is, with the bigger exhaust system, the wastegate may have trouble holding the boost steady at 5psi.

Either way, that you're only hitting 7psi is a good start - how is it running like that anyway, now? Any thoughts on the leak-down compression tests, turbo shaft play, etc? Would think someone in NSW section would be able to point you at a local competent tuner to visit for advice.

[GoHard]

Thanks the help, very much appreciated.

Sorry these photos are prob turn out big... 1st two photos are some black hoses. they kinda split up all over the show

3rd photo shows where one ends up on the drivers side (turns into a blue hose)

4th photo is hard to make out, but there is a little black box where a few of the hoses go into

5th photo shows a blocked hose next to BOV, assuming thats 'normal' (as normal as BOVs can get, anyway)

6th and 7th you might spot somthing, just ask and I can take a closer pic

As per the tests, I have no idea who/what/where hence coming on to the forums, but that sounds like a good idea. If someone knows of a reputable mob in my area that would be cool. I kinda didn't look hard enough obviously... theres a NSW section?

[Galois]

GoHard, you have to stop driving your car. Think about it, it's blowing smoke, which could mean a leaky turbo on the way out or complete destruction of the engine is round the next corner. Does that really seem like the time to be boosting and revving?

My advice is get on the NSW forum, search for mechanic and tuner and were you are (three different searches, if needed) until you have a few names of mechanics/tuners nearby. You definitely want someone who's worked on a lot of performance cars to save money, time and tears lol.

Then drive it there carefully, explain when it's blowing smoke etc and see what they have to say. They'll have a look at the intake pipes for copious amounts of oil, the turbo itself for the same, and do a leakdown test on the engine (a leak down test is a "better" version of the compression test). This will tell them where the problems are likely to be. If all looks good it might be something else.

You're hoping it's the turbo, so it's an easy replacement (~$300) or upgrade (buy anything from a highflowed turbo for 1k to a brand new brandname kit for 2-3k).

If it's the engine it'll be a rebuild, and the mechanic will advise you on whether it's worth buying the parts and paying for labour or buying another engine.

In summary, everytime the engine turns it might be doing serious damage. So dive it slowly and carefully, off boost and at low rpm, to an experienced mechanic and let them figure out what the problem is.

I feel sorry for you mate, you've been pretty unlucky. But at least you know for next time you buy a car, a mechanical inspection including a compression test is a must, esp for performance cars.

Let us know how you go.

[MBS206]

Go hard, mate take it to Kon at Wollongong Automotive Services. He's a good bloke, and is a no bullshitter.

Just call him, book it in, drive it to him. Don't drive it anywhere else if you can't afford a full over haul. It could simply be a lie hooked up wrong, it could be dead rings, he'll find the issue though.

[GoHard]

Go hard, mate take it to Kon at Wollongong Automotive Services. He's a good bloke, and is a no bullshitter.

Just call him, book it in, drive it to him. Don't drive it anywhere else if you can't afford a full over haul. It could simply be a lie hooked up wrong, it could be dead rings, he'll find the issue though.

Matt, Your a Champ.

Exactly the info that I need at the moment I rekon. I tried searchin, and searchin, and searchin, and all I could find was "Stuart at Bezerkly!" "Stuart at Bezerkly!" "Stuart isn't at Bezerkly anymore and doesn't really do the peformance cars anymore!" I did send him a pm but it looks like hes not really active at the moment. Will try Kon out. Thanks very much for that, Matt. -Cheers

[Luke_GTS-T]

+1 for Kon at WAS... great bloke

[GoHard]

Yeah... Cheers.

Looks like it will be off the road for a little bit. Ive been saving up for this puppy, expecting this in th future... Not the next day. This crap wasn't planned in my budget. Got a bunch of un-skyline (but still money related) issues pop up too. I tell ya, when it rains... It pours.

I found one of those leak down kits on ebay for $100, and a work matey has a compresser and wouldn't mind a tester so gonna go halvies with him. 50 bucks... Why not. Might use this gararged time to do some painting of the calipers and stuff... What else are some cheap (and preferably time consuming) mods i can do while im waiting to save? Any ideas?

[GoHard]

Hey guys,

Just to let you know... Turns out cylinders 2&6 are down 50 pound! I cant believe its so bad, yet still has guts!

Its not quite the news I wanted but hey, dont check it out before you buy, be prepared for a roller coaster ride.

Just wanna thank you guys who recommended Kon, I agree he seems good quality. Need to find myself a good engine and will get him to pop it in f'sure.