Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Does anyone remember the super tourers of the mid 90s- early 00s? The weight penalties were something like FWD 0kg, RWD 50kg, 4WD 150kg... The group A GTRs had a massive weight penalty over the Sierras to start with but by the end of racing were carrying a heap more weight and boost restrictions that were not applied to the Sierras, anyone remember how that went? I am not going to get into science and big noting myself, because it is very simple, 4WD gives better grip, allowing you to use more HP, sooner. The rallying is very relevant simply because it highlights the difference by reducing the grip. I cannot think of a race series that allows 4WD where it is not unbeatable (no, I do not care about drag racing)

  • Replies 130
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

the long and the short of it is that no matter which side you are on, group A is an extremely poor example to use. the rules and regulations were pretty ordinary, and manufacturers could build a car that was right on th elimit, make enough road going models to get it allowed to race and that was it, meanwhile other car companies were simply beefing up existing models to make them a little bit better.

i would've like to had seem how the AWD turbo falcon that ford was working on (but ended up scrapping) would've gone against the GTR.

oh and i remember the super tourers that were all 4 cylinders (basically what the BTCC is). because of parity regulations neither fwd, rwd or awd dominated, however in the wet the audi's did very well, being awd.

That was why I mentioned the Supertourers/BTCC, very tightly regulated and controlled, they wrote rules to hobble the 4WDs, then outlawed them. So in summary, OP, was it Tyres?, asked for opinions, my OPINION, Build a 4WD, which means if you want to restrict it to a Skyline GTR, but an Evo will make a better cheaper track car... Puts on Wizard hat and robe... Realises flame suit will do shit all on this one...

I had a run against my mate in his GTS-T and my GTR. His car had more rwkw than mine yet at the track the GTR would walk away from in the corners. If you add more power to the GTST the situation will only get worse, not better. Ive owned and driven everything turbo in the R32 guise and the GTR is at the top of tree im afraid.

Did I just get owned in my own thread? I think I did :thumbsup:. Thanks guys, gonna sell my Skyline and get a cheap 'run around' til i'm in the opens. Not much I can argue, I can already see oversteer is possible from the videos NISMO has posted, with limited grip levels even as an AWD from high power.

Marc: Last time I checked the rules of Group A racing (just then), there was no rule on the compound of tyre you can run so I'm assuming that it was a modern day spec Group A GTR. Why did Ford scrap the AWD turbo Falcon? They released the XR6T anyways so I don't see why they wouldn't just release it as an AWD, surely it wouldn't cost that much more to develop unless a certain drivetrain works better for some cars?

djr81: Not saying I don't believe you or anything but you're saying that the more static load a tyre has, the less grip it will have? It would at least make sense if the tyre's coefficient of grip decreased with decreased load because of the area of tyre patch. Is there an explanation? If given a weight heavy enough, would the coeffecient of friction become 0? (LOL logic) Or would it just asymptote? For your information I have read Carroll Smith's Drive To Win and am a big fan of his books. In regards to the GTSR comment, the G35/V35 is actually pretty much just as fast as a R32 GTR (Reference

skip to 3:45 onwards), it's FR and it weighs more. Hows that work if AWD was so superior and modern?

Iplen: Yeah it's true, Evos dominate the top places in TA because their AWD system is actually sophisticated with all the yaw controls etc, probably as developed as the R34 GTR system. Spoke to a few Evo owners and they said it was cheaper, and more reliable to track the Evo instead of a GTR.

RBNT: But the GTS-T had you in terms of acceleration right? More wheels to spin = more drivetrain loss. What aero and tyres was he running compared to you? Who had a better lap time? (No I don't wanna hear excuses if you lost lol)

Edited by TyresBro

Did I just get owned in my own thread? I think I did :thumbsup:. Thanks guys, gonna sell my Skyline and get a cheap 'run around' til i'm in the opens. Not much I can argue, I can already see oversteer is possible from the videos NISMO has posted, with limited grip levels even as an AWD from high power.

Marc: Last time I checked the rules of Group A racing (just then), there was no rule on the compound of tyre you can run so I'm assuming that it was a modern day spec Group A GTR. Why did Ford scrap the AWD turbo Falcon? They released the XR6T anyways so I don't see why they wouldn't just release it as an AWD, surely it wouldn't cost that much more to develop unless a certain drivetrain works better for some cars?

djr81: Not saying I don't believe you or anything but you're saying that the more static load a tyre has, the less grip it will have? It would at least make sense if the tyre's coefficient of grip decreased with decreased load because of the area of tyre patch. Is there an explanation? If given a weight heavy enough, would the coeffecient of friction become 0? (LOL logic) Or would it just asymptote? For your information I have read Carroll Smith's Drive To Win and am a big fan of his books. In regards to the GTSR comment, the G35/V35 is actually pretty much just as fast as a R32 GTR (Reference

skip to 3:45 onwards), it's FR and it weighs more. Hows that work if AWD was so superior and modern?

Iplen: Yeah it's true, Evos dominate the top places in TA because their AWD system is actually sophisticated with all the yaw controls etc, probably as developed as the R34 GTR system. Spoke to a few Evo owners and they said it was cheaper, and more reliable to track the Evo instead of a GTR.

RBNT: But the GTS-T had you in terms of acceleration right? More wheels to spin = more drivetrain loss. What aero and tyres was he running compared to you? Who had a better lap time? (No I don't wanna hear excuses if you lost lol)

the awd falcon was in developement back in the 80's (was going to be a 268kw AWD twin turbo XF).

No, I'm saying they probably scrapped the AWD XF and invested the rest of the money into the creation of the RS200... (yes it did have a turbo as well as AWD)

you do realise that the rs200 finished production around the same time that they started the AWD XF designing. it was more likely scrapped because of new emissions laws, and the fact that the XF model was scrapped for the EA.

rs200 was actually AWD

Marc and I don't agree to often, but yeah, RS2000 was RWD, RS 200 was not, mid engined 1.8 turbo, with 4WD, twin shocks and there was some sort of tricky gearbox too, dual range or something from memory. The Evolution was going to be 2l. Was released for the RAC Lombard at the end of 85, part way through 86 it was announced that group B was to be finished as well as Group S which was due to replace it, following the death of Henri Toivenen and Sergio Cresto as well as an RS200 crew after they ploughed into spectators. When Ford/cosworth were developing this thing they could not have cared less what a little tuning company in Aus was doing..

....and yes, you got owned in your own thread

gud werk

No I didn't get owned actually. In the end, you guys ran outta arguments or couldn't answer your own statements :cheers:

This brng out the other question in the events of owning a GTR, would you install an AWD torque split controller? And if yes, what would you set it to on the track? Be honest. If no, why?

Edited by TyresBro

No I didn't get owned actually. In the end, you guys ran outta arguments or couldn't answer your own statements :cheers:

This brng out the other question in the events of owning a GTR, would you install an AWD torque split controller? And if yes, what would you set it to on the track? Be honest. If no, why?

Yes you would install a torque split controller (On a 32 in my experience). You then set it up to transfer as much torque forward as possible (based on the assumption it is of the type that interferes with the lateral accelerometer input to the ATTESSA system).

The GTR's were set up to drive nicely on the road. How you set the up for the track is a whole different story.

Yes you would install a torque split controller (On a 32 in my experience). You then set it up to transfer as much torque forward as possible (based on the assumption it is of the type that interferes with the lateral accelerometer input to the ATTESSA system).

The GTR's were set up to drive nicely on the road. How you set the up for the track is a whole different story.

djr81 Are you messing with us? Not saying it's incorrect (or correct), first you say that the less load on a tyre the higher coefficient of grip but now you say with a torque split controller to put as much power to the front wheels as possible. So in a way, on top of the already understeering and front heavy R32 GTR, you give it more understeer?

I was only agreeing with you.

My knowledge is from experience, not google.

Well I take it back :P

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • I've heard the Tomei USA head gaskets are decent if you want to o-ring the heads but otherwise not recommended.
    • The 296mm rotors are the R33 turbo brakes. The 310mm rotors are the R34 turbo brakes. The calipers are nearly the same, but not. They're the same caliper but the R34 caliper has longer legs so that it sits out far enough to go over the rotor. The pads are the same for both. When you say, "I bough tsome EBC"....did you just mean pads? Or rotors? 310mm rotors fit under 17" wheels. There may be some wheels without enough clearance though. I can't fit my fingers between the barrel of my wheel and the "corners" of my R34 calipers, but there is plenty of room behind the spokes. This is on Enkei RPF1. You can fit 324mm rotors inside a 17" wheel, but I'd be willing to bet that it would be close to impossible with the Nissan/Sumitomo caliper (using an adapter, of course), because the Sumitomo caliper is fatter than the Brembo caliper that is supposed to go on the 324mm rotors.
    • Hi. Can someone tell me what brakes(and mainly WHERE) can i buy brakes on R34 GTT? I bought some EBC which SHOULD go on my car(i have GT but it has GTT brakes) but it does not fit, Brakes are "too" small(296mm) Are 310mm be good or? I have 17 inch wheel so no "big boys" but for me driving i just need one that fits and i can get here in EU/Czech.
    • Since winter isn't that harsh anymore in Poland, i will definetely drive it 365 days a year 😉. But if the snow hits i will try it for sure and let U know. Only swap i am planning to do is of course R34 GTR front 😍.
    • Hey. Very valuable information about pitwork, I will pay attention when buying any consumable parts 🙏 As for the carpets - I got a handful of information from nengun, from which it appears that indeed the carpets for the driver's side are OEM. They are not able to show me any pictures due to the long chain of different sales entities but after I place the order, as soon as the goods arrive at the nengun warehouse from which they will send the shipment to me they can send me photos and if my purchase differs from OEM I can immediately return it / cancel the purchase. I think I will give it a try 😉. Of course i'll let you know what's what as soon as i get them P.s. I know the topic is not relevant to the thread, but both nengun and amayama have these SICK 😍 trunk room lamps available. Do you know anyone who ordered them? I need to have one in my car
×
×
  • Create New...