Interesting Amp Problem

[Hanaldo]

Hey all,

I'm having an interesting, albeit frustrating, problem with the sound system in my car. The problem is with my Pioneer amp, came with the car so I'm not 100% sure on specs. It's white and used to make stuff loud, that's all I know.

So what happened is, everything was working fine. Then I relocated my battery to my boot. And now the amp isn't getting power. Which means I get no sound. Head unit turns on and works fine, amp connections are all as they used to be. I didn't rewire anything except to take the power cable from the engine bay to the boot. Using the standard 30A inline fuse., 8GA wire, etc. But the light on the amp doesn't turn on and I get no sound, so I know I'm not getting power.

Here's where it gets interesting. I checked all the connections and couldn't find a problem. So to be sure, I transferred all the connections straight across to my other amp, a Kenwood 600W item. Didn't change anything, just moved the wires to set up the other amp exactly the same as I had the Pioneer one set up. This amp got power. So I thought the other amp must be rooted. I checked the built-in fuse on it, that's fine. So I ripped it out, but before I threw it in the bin I wanted to be double sure. So I wired it into my mates car, again exactly the same as I had it connected in my car. Bam, it gets power and works fine. Nothing wrong with the amp then, so I wired it back into my car, quadruple checking how everything is wired. No power.

Halp??

[SNOQPY]

did you check the remote power from the headunit to the amp?

[SargeRX8]

The amp needs 3 things. Positive, ground and a turn on wire. If you don't have a multimeter, disconnect your amp turn on wire(the blue wire) and then bridge the positive fat cable on the amp to the amp turn on wire port. The amp WILL turn on if and only if you are getting power through your power cable. If the amp is NOT turning on, either A your fuse on your power line is gone, B your power cable is poorly connected to your batter or C the ground cable is poor. Its as simple as that. The amp will turn on if all these are covered. If it DOES turn on, try it again with the amp wire from the deck. If there is no luck, pull out your deck and make sure the turn on wire hasn't come apart. If it still does NOT turn on, get a multimeter or a test light and stick it between the deck and a ground and see if there is any voltage on the amp turn on wire. If there isn't, you may have connected something wrong and blown the circuit in the deck which controls the amp wire. A fix for this(and also an awesome feature) is to get a piece of wire run from your ACC on the deck to a switch then to your amp so you can switch your amps on and off if you wish.

See but everything I said up there is thrown out by the fact that your other amp turns on with the exact same wire configuration. Try as I suggested by bridging the +ve on the amp to the turn on wire port see what the go is.

Another thing is some amps have power up options. Example, my amps have 3 options all controlled by a little switch on the side. Turn on via >12+v, Amp wire, Signal through RCA's. This basically means that my amp does not need an amp wire to turn on. It can be turned on when the amp detects music playing through the RCA from the head unit, it can turn on ONLY when the car is on giving a 14.4v so the amp knows the car engine is running or the main option is the amp wire. Check if your amp has this feature and what it is set at.

[Carbon 34]

I hope you meant , 8 gauge from the BOOT mounted battery to the amps, not Engine bay still. 8ga is a bit small for 2 amps to run on except short distances each amp needs fuse as close to battery as possible. or one shared on the line , TO PROTECT THE CAR not the amps unless its a huge SPL amp with no fuses built into the amp

BAD ground ? use the same ground for both amps, as short as possible and use a bolt , not screws (not seat bolt or belts )

not getting 12+ VOLTS on the constant power the old pioneer might be fussy and not turn on without enough voltage(when did they come white ? I can't recall white pioneer amps ever ?) is it a silver one painted white

or the radio isn't putting out enough voltage to turn it on both amps due to the ground /voltage difference now...., use a relay.

you might have created a grounding problem with boot mounting your battery. MOST LIKELY.

run a ground 4GA to the alternator frame to the body of the car( use the bolt from factory down below the battery tray in front, just clean off the crust and paint, first. then use a dab of grease on the spot after you tighten the bolt to stop rust) , this will help a few things besides the amp, spark coils, and everything electronic in the car.

then run a 4GA wire from the battery in the rear to a close by bolt, grind off the paint under it and ground the battery right there. dont use seat, or seat belt bolts, and dont drill into brakes, fuel tanks, etc.

you created a ground problem with voltages differences now. you most likely will have engine noise too. whine ?

I hope you fused the wire from front battery location to rear ? if that wire gets cut its a fire ? must be at least 4GA or better too

this is assuming the amps are in the boot not under a seat ?

and dont forget batteries in the boot must be vented to outside, or sealed AGM /spiral wound style battery to be legal and safe ? hydrogen gas explosions are bad

[Hanaldo]

did you check the remote power from the headunit to the amp?

Yes, I used all the same wiring when I connected up the other amp, I didn't change anything. Just unscrewed all the wires from the Pioneer amp and screwed them straight into the Kenwood amp.

The amp needs 3 things. Positive, ground and a turn on wire. If you don't have a multimeter, disconnect your amp turn on wire(the blue wire) and then bridge the positive fat cable on the amp to the amp turn on wire port. The amp WILL turn on if and only if you are getting power through your power cable. If the amp is NOT turning on, either A your fuse on your power line is gone, B your power cable is poorly connected to your batter or C the ground cable is poor. Its as simple as that. The amp will turn on if all these are covered. If it DOES turn on, try it again with the amp wire from the deck. If there is no luck, pull out your deck and make sure the turn on wire hasn't come apart. If it still does NOT turn on, get a multimeter or a test light and stick it between the deck and a ground and see if there is any voltage on the amp turn on wire. If there isn't, you may have connected something wrong and blown the circuit in the deck which controls the amp wire. A fix for this(and also an awesome feature) is to get a piece of wire run from your ACC on the deck to a switch then to your amp so you can switch your amps on and off if you wish.

See but everything I said up there is thrown out by the fact that your other amp turns on with the exact same wire configuration. Try as I suggested by bridging the +ve on the amp to the turn on wire port see what the go is.

Another thing is some amps have power up options. Example, my amps have 3 options all controlled by a little switch on the side. Turn on via >12+v, Amp wire, Signal through RCA's. This basically means that my amp does not need an amp wire to turn on. It can be turned on when the amp detects music playing through the RCA from the head unit, it can turn on ONLY when the car is on giving a 14.4v so the amp knows the car engine is running or the main option is the amp wire. Check if your amp has this feature and what it is set at.

Yeh I did try bridging the remote turn on wire, no go. But all the same wires work when screwed into my other amp. Looked for the switch, neither of my amps have it.

I hope you meant , 8 gauge from the BOOT mounted battery to the amps, not Engine bay still. 8ga is a bit small for 2 amps to run on except short distances each amp needs fuse as close to battery as possible. or one shared on the line , TO PROTECT THE CAR not the amps unless its a huge SPL amp with no fuses built into the amp

BAD ground ? use the same ground for both amps, as short as possible and use a bolt , not screws (not seat bolt or belts )

not getting 12+ VOLTS on the constant power the old pioneer might be fussy and not turn on without enough voltage(when did they come white ? I can't recall white pioneer amps ever ?) is it a silver one painted white

or the radio isn't putting out enough voltage to turn it on both amps due to the ground /voltage difference now...., use a relay.

you might have created a grounding problem with boot mounting your battery. MOST LIKELY.

run a ground 4GA to the alternator frame to the body of the car( use the bolt from factory down below the battery tray in front, just clean off the crust and paint, first. then use a dab of grease on the spot after you tighten the bolt to stop rust) , this will help a few things besides the amp, spark coils, and everything electronic in the car.

then run a 4GA wire from the battery in the rear to a close by bolt, grind off the paint under it and ground the battery right there. dont use seat, or seat belt bolts, and dont drill into brakes, fuel tanks, etc.

you created a ground problem with voltages differences now. you most likely will have engine noise too. whine ?

I hope you fused the wire from front battery location to rear ? if that wire gets cut its a fire ? must be at least 4GA or better too

this is assuming the amps are in the boot not under a seat ?

and dont forget batteries in the boot must be vented to outside, or sealed AGM /spiral wound style battery to be legal and safe ? hydrogen gas explosions are bad

Yeh got my numbers wrong, the amp wiring is 4GA, to the battery in the boot. The battery relocation has been done properly. There's no dodgy earths, and the wire is 00 gauge, proper stuff from Westrac. Fused. Also checked voltage drop and everything when I was done, that's all fine. So car runs fine, there's no problems with the relocation itself. I'm fairly electrically savvy, so I know how it all works and what to look for. But this has got me stumped.

Not sure if the amp has been painted, but it definitely looks like it came from factory like this. No hard lines near the power light or anything. As in my above reply, I used all the same connections between both amps, didn't change anything. Just moved the wires across from one amp to the other.

[Carbon 34]

Yes, I used all the same wiring when I connected up the other amp, I didn't change anything. Just unscrewed all the wires from the Pioneer amp and screwed them straight into the Kenwood amp.

Yeh I did try bridging the remote turn on wire, no go. But all the same wires work when screwed into my other amp. Looked for the switch, neither of my amps have it.

Yeh got my numbers wrong, the amp wiring is 4GA, to the battery in the boot. The battery relocation has been done properly. There's no dodgy earths, and the wire is 00 gauge, proper stuff from Westrac. Fused. Also checked voltage drop and everything when I was done, that's all fine. So car runs fine, there's no problems with the relocation itself. I'm fairly electrically savvy, so I know how it all works and what to look for. But this has got me stumped.

Not sure if the amp has been painted, but it definitely looks like it came from factory like this. No hard lines near the power light or anything. As in my above reply, I used all the same connections between both amps, didn't change anything. Just moved the wires across from one amp to the other.

what is the model # of the amp

most white equipment is for boats ?

if so you know you have wire issues or the power block/hookup on the pioneer amp itself is loose inside the case maybe ?

unhook all the wires/RCA from it, only put the ground, and 12v on it, then use a small hunk of wire as sugguested above to jump into the 12v turn on spot on the amp, do you get power or protection lights ?

nothing ? check the ground ? still nothing, are you sure you have 12v min on both wires that need power ? still nothing try the same trick on someone elses car or spare battery , just have them help you hold the wires right on the battery , using care not to arc them. any power lights ? no . amp or board connections bad. smell the amp side near the power, does it smell burned ? out of warranty take off cover , look for obvious smoked items, or wiggle power to see if the solder joints are still attached to the curcuit board. while power is disconnected of course.

beyond that it might need someone else to have a upclose look at it. before you dump it ?

if you haven't use a volt meter on the grounds , I would suggest it. you could be suprised by what you find , some amps wont turn on if its .5v low or the ground is floating thru the RCA

[nk7]

Was this fixed? I am interested in knowing what the solution was? If not..

I am not sure but could it be the grounds for the amps, especially if they are separate or combined using a distro or whatever. If combined make sure the hungrier (i.e. more power ) amp's (most presumably for subs) ground is closest to car body/metal than the the other amp ground wire - or use a distro for ground. Much easier.

If amp grounds separated, are grounds close to each other?