Can Anyone Explain This Wheel Alignment Report?

[NISSAN GTR]

I got a wheel alignment after lowering my car 45 mm at front and 35 mm at the rear , at the same time i put some new Hankook Ventus Rs- 3 tyres on .

My previous tyres were shredded from the previous owners poor alignment , had major wear on the fronts inside edges and still had 4mm in the middle ?

Since this happened i told the guy who did the alignment , set it up more so my tyres last a great deal longer .

The next day in my garage i noticed it looked like way much camber on the rear , im after longevity ATM

So im asking is the alignment within limits , i want to make sure they did a good job !

Thanks

[GTSBoy]

If you don't have any adjustable stuff installed at the rear, there's nothing he can really do to remove the extra camber that you have - and the extra camber results from lowering the car. Get at least one set of adjustable bushes into it, if not two sets, and try again.

[Duncan]

+1

And....the main previous issue was probably the amount of toe at the front, which they have corrected. At the rear there is about 1/4o adjustment to camber available from factory.

[NISSAN GTR]

If you don't have any adjustable stuff installed at the rear, there's nothing he can really do to remove the extra camber that you have - and the extra camber results from lowering the car. Get at least one set of adjustable bushes into it, if not two sets, and try again.

Am i better with camber arms or adjustable bushes , camber arms look easier to install rather than bushing kits ? which is better

[Duncan]

camber arms are easier to install, have more adjustment, and will be noisier and last much less time

[GTSBoy]

camber arms are easier to install, have more adjustment, and will be noisier and last much less time

And this is the killer. Otherwise they'd be a good thing all round.

[NISSAN GTR]

I just got a price from pedders -( whiteline supplier) in S.A , a set of 1 degree adjustment bushes $470

and 2 degree bushes $740 which is ridiculous . Some more advice would help , thanks

[GTSBoy]

I just got a price from pedders -( whiteline supplier) in S.A , a set of 1 degree adjustment bushes $470

and 2 degree bushes $740 which is ridiculous . Some more advice would help , thanks

The answer is to stay the hell away from Pedders at all costs.

Price up some Whiteline/Superpro bushes from various vendors. Decide if you can fit them yourself (it's not too hard), or if you would be better off getting a workshop you trust to source and fit them. It still adds up to more dollars than it seems it's worth, but in the long run you will get better tyre life, which can pay for itself pretty quickly.

[blk94r33]

The answer is to stay the hell away from Pedders at all costs.

Price up some Whiteline/Superpro bushes from various vendors. Decide if you can fit them yourself (it's not too hard), or if you would be better off getting a workshop you trust to source and fit them. It still adds up to more dollars than it seems it's worth, but in the long run you will get better tyre life, which can pay for itself pretty quickly.

+1

Got Nolathane rear-upper control arm bushes with +-1.5 degrees camber adjustment, great price and still going strong, made a world of difference to handling after lowering and has done heaps for tyre wear.....

[NISSAN GTR]

+1

Got Nolathane rear-upper control arm bushes with +-1.5 degrees camber adjustment, great price and still going strong, made a world of difference to handling after lowering and has done heaps for tyre wear.....

Was that with one kit or two , how much for product and install ?Thanks

[blk94r33]

Was that with one kit or two , how much for product and install ?Thanks

They came as a pair, with 4 bushes, two offset inners (the adjustable bit) and all the necessary bolts and nuts, and fit in the upper rear-most control arm, in the hub end... Cost me $90 so expect ~$120-$140? I fitted them myself, and it sucked as the stock steel outer was seized to the hub, 3 hours total of cutting out the rubber bit, then the steel all while trying not to damage the hub.

Kit here:

http://www.nolathane...rt_number=46230

Also has a picture showing where the bush goes and what it corrects.....

Edit: My big nasty book of receipts says that I installed the kit in september last year, I average about 20,000 km per year, if that's any help as to expected life? They haven't worn out or lost adjustment yet....

Edited October 8, 2011 by blk94r33

[NISSAN GTR]

They came as a pair, with 4 bushes, two offset inners (the adjustable bit) and all the necessary bolts and nuts, and fit in the upper rear-most control arm, in the hub end... Cost me $90 so expect ~$120-$140? I fitted them myself, and it sucked as the stock steel outer was seized to the hub, 3 hours total of cutting out the rubber bit, then the steel all while trying not to damage the hub.

Kit here:

http://www.nolathane...rt_number=46230

Also has a picture showing where the bush goes and what it corrects.....

Edit: My big nasty book of receipts says that I installed the kit in september last year, I average about 20,000 km per year, if that's any help as to expected life? They haven't worn out or lost adjustment yet....

A big thanks mate !

[NISSAN GTR]

They came as a pair, with 4 bushes, two offset inners (the adjustable bit) and all the necessary bolts and nuts, and fit in the upper rear-most control arm, in the hub end... Cost me $90 so expect ~$120-$140? I fitted them myself, and it sucked as the stock steel outer was seized to the hub, 3 hours total of cutting out the rubber bit, then the steel all while trying not to damage the hub.

Kit here:

http://www.nolathane...rt_number=46230

Also has a picture showing where the bush goes and what it corrects.....

Edit: My big nasty book of receipts says that I installed the kit in september last year, I average about 20,000 km per year, if that's any help as to expected life? They haven't worn out or lost adjustment yet....

Im still having some issues :

I finally got around to installing some nolathane adjustment bushes front and back also

replaced the old well camber worn tyres with some new Ventus Hancook RS-3 tyres .

I then took my car in for a wheel allignment , all good so far , until i drove it and realised the car wants to pull left and right over bumps and undulations from heavy traffic !

I took it back to the allignment guy , he blamed the tyres , i dont really believe the douchebag

Can anyone read this , do i need more toe or anything to stop the tramming effect ???????

Camber left rear -1 12'

right rear -1 53'

toe left +1,1mm

right +1,2mm

Caster left + 3 08'

right + 3 33'

Camber front left -0 49'

front right -1 16'

toe left +1, 4mm

right +1, 5mm

FACTORY SETTINGS;

TCamber rear - 1 15'

Toe IN rear 4-0

Caster 3 55'

Camber front -0 50'

Toe IN front 2-0

Edited December 27, 2011 by NISSAN GTR

[GTSBoy]

Tyres will definitely contribute to tramlining. Look for reviews of that tyre that mention it (in case lots of other people have the problem). Trouble is, it can be specific to car and/or setup too. Same tyre on different cars and you get different opinions about how bad they tramline. Anyway, looking at your alignment report, the only problem is that it could use a bit more camber on the front left, to match the front right. Having them different like that might make it grab hold of camber differences in the road (like grooves from heavy traffic, like you complain of) and drag the car around.

[ichi-go]

But that's usually how alignment place do it, same experience with a bridgestone tyre center here as well, ask them to do -2 camber all round, car came back with more camber on passenger and less on driver side, they usually do it to offset the slight camber on the road

[GTSBoy]

Oh, yeah, I agree and got involved in an argument on here about it only a couple of weeks ago......just pointing out that it's about the only thing visible in the report that looks like it would cause tramlining. (and in this case his camber difference is the other way around, but we'll ignore that for the moment).

[NISSAN GTR]

Oh, yeah, I agree and got involved in an argument on here about it only a couple of weeks ago......just pointing out that it's about the only thing visible in the report that looks like it would cause tramlining. (and in this case his camber difference is the other way around, but we'll ignore that for the moment).

The annoying thing was the car use to steer amazingly with race car like cornering , but now the tyre wear/camber/toe is sorted out its pretty ordinary to drive now

[R33_NICK]

The annoying thing was the car use to steer amazingly with race car like cornering , but now the tyre wear/camber/toe is sorted out its pretty ordinary to drive now

Means your old alignment is good for the track but not good for tyre wear when just driving normally. Theres always compromises when setting your car up to perform better for the track and tyre longevity for daily driving. like for example: you set your car up to have more negative camber so you get better turn in and maximum contact patch when cornering, making full use of your tyre's grip at the track but the trade off is when driving normally or in a straight line, the excessive negative camber means only the inside half of the tyre is contacting the road which will chew out your tyres. Race alignment and daily driving/factory alignments dont mix as each have their compromises.

Looking at your wheel alignment report, theres still way too much negative camber at the right rear which means your left rear tyre has more contact patch(possible cause as to why it pulls left since more of the left tyre is contacting the road) on the road than the right and becomes worse when you sit in the car as the driver's weight will make the right side sit slightly lower, increasing negative camber at that corner and make its contact patch worse. how much has your car been lowered? excessive lowering means the adjustable bush has reached it limit (this is why i went adjustable arms as they have more adjustment range even at the expense of NVH which i can live with if it means longer tyre life or better alignment control) and cause the aligner to not able to add more positive camber but id be asking the aligner whether this is why he couldnt adjust your right camber more though that said, he should have mentioned this to you when you pick your car up.

Note if your tyres are still the same ones that are on the car before the alignment is done, dont think that the problem will go away after the alignment as there is 'tyre memory' where the tyre is worn according to the old alignment and can contribute to the cars sporadic behaviour that cant be fixed with a wheel alignment unless the tyres are changed and another wheel alignment carried out to suit the new tyre. but seeing as you've replaced your tyres and had a wheel alignment carried out together, i guess your problem is now your current alignment which we can clearly see is a possible cause to your car's behaviour. note i said possible as there can be many other factors that can cause any vehicle to pull. hope this makes sense

Edited December 29, 2011 by R33_NICK

[NISSAN GTR]

Means your old alignment is good for the track but not good for tyre wear when just driving normally. Theres always compromises when setting your car up to perform better for the track and tyre longevity for daily driving. like for example: you set your car up to have more negative camber so you get better turn in and maximum contact patch when cornering, making full use of your tyre's grip at the track but the trade off is when driving normally or in a straight line, the excessive negative camber means only the inside half of the tyre is contacting the road which will chew out your tyres. Race alignment and daily driving/factory alignments dont mix as each have their compromises.

Looking at your wheel alignment report, theres still way too much negative camber at the right rear which means your left rear tyre has more contact patch(possible cause as to why it pulls left since more of the left tyre is contacting the road) on the road than the right and becomes worse when you sit in the car as the driver's weight will make the right side sit slightly lower, increasing negative camber at that corner and make its contact patch worse. how much has your car been lowered? excessive lowering means the adjustable bush has reached it limit (this is why i went adjustable arms as they have more adjustment range even at the expense of NVH which i can live with if it means longer tyre life or better alignment control) and cause the aligner to not able to add more positive camber but id be asking the aligner whether this is why he couldnt adjust your right camber more though that said, he should have mentioned this to you when you pick your car up.

Note if your tyres are still the same ones that are on the car before the alignment is done, dont think that the problem will go away after the alignment as there is 'tyre memory' where the tyre is worn according to the old alignment and can contribute to the cars sporadic behaviour that cant be fixed with a wheel alignment unless the tyres are changed and another wheel alignment carried out to suit the new tyre. but seeing as you've replaced your tyres and had a wheel alignment carried out together, i guess your problem is now your current alignment which we can clearly see is a possible cause to your car's behaviour. note i said possible as there can be many other factors that can cause any vehicle to pull. hope this makes sense

Thanks for your response , yes the car has been lowered 40mm front 25 rear , also i installed nolathane camber adjustment bushes to counter the camber wear on tyres .

i dont think the rear camber being slightly out on one side will cause the steering wheel to pull side to side- front , my old GTR did the same (tramlining) only because the tyres were massive inside tyre wear .

The current tyres are brand spankers , installed just before allignment and bushes .

Do you think changing front tyres around" temporarily" so they are not directional , will let me know if its tyres causing the problem - RS3 Ventus , also changing front bearings will make a difference ?

Edited December 29, 2011 by NISSAN GTR

[R33_NICK]

Thanks for your response , yes the car has been lowered 40mm front 25 rear , also i installed nolathane camber adjustment bushes to counter the camber wear on tyres .

i dont think the rear camber being slightly out on one side will cause the steering wheel to pull side to side- front , my old GTR did the same (tramlining) only because the tyres were massive inside tyre wear .

The current tyres are brand spankers , installed just before allignment and bushes .

Do you think changing front tyres around" temporarily" so they are not directional , will let me know if its tyres causing the problem - RS3 Ventus , also changing front bearings will make a difference ?

No worries . I do wheel alignments almost evryday at work.

Yes, you can try swapping them left to right to see if it pulls to the opposite direction. it'd be better if they arent directional but it should be ok if its just temporary for checking. if it does pull to the opposite direction, then its the tyres that are at fault but if it still pulls to the same direction, then its the alignment. if your wheel bearings have play in them they may contribute to the car's behaviour but not so much to actually make the car's behaviour on the road that badly. if you have free-play in your wheel bearings, it is advisable to change them first before an alignment is carried out but i dont think that is your problem at the moment especially if theres no freeplay.

sometimes when the camber is out on one side at the rear, it can cause the car to pull because the tyre that has the most contact patch will mean that they have more grip on the road and being equipped with LSD where you get both wheels spinning at the same rate, the tyre with the most grip will cause the vehicle to pull to that direction where it has the most grip almost similar to torque steer, which affects its thrust angle that also affects the front alignment or steering direction causing crabbing or tram-lining(which is why with LSD equipped vehicles or AWD cars especially, its advisable to have the same type of tyre, thread pattern or wear on both sides as any difference can have negative impact on its behaviour on the road). I had a car that was pulling quite badly to the right and when i checked his wheel alignment, there was too much negative camber on this example the left side and his car was pulling badly to the right because the right side camber is more neutral hence that tyre has more contact patch/grip. luckily his adjustments havent maxed out so i was able to adjust his camber to be equal all round and the car drove fine after that. also keep in mind if you drive the car on that alignment for awhile your tyres are going to wear according to that set up. but in your case, id start by swapping the front tyres left to right to see if it pulls to the opposite direction or all of a sudden it drives straight. if it doesnt change then we'll need to pay close attention to the wheel alignment as mentioned above. AWD cars need more attention with their wheel alignments.

i'd still ask the aligner whether the right hand rear camber adjustment has maxed out seeing as he's just left the camber alone like that because if its my car, i cant accept it unless the adjustment bush has actually maxed out which means you cant do anything about it unless you have adjustable arms. but if theres still room to move, theres no excuse as to why he couldnt neutralise it more. i wont call this current setting compensation alignment as your current camber settings are opposite of what it should be for compensation of road camber+driver's weight.

Edited December 30, 2011 by R33_NICK