External Single Stage Oil Pump Suction Point

[kitto]

Hey everyone, just a quick question or two about external oil pumps for RB's running a steel sump.

I've tried searching for info about this and havn't come up with a definite conclusion.

What i'm wanting to do is fit an external oil pump to my 25 NEO along with a high volume sump.

Question is, where is the best place for the scavenge side of the pump?

Would it be adequate to remove the welsh plug on the left hand side of the factory oil, put in an AN fitting and use this as the pickup point. Or would the small size of the oil gallery be too restrictive for the external oil pump. The external oil pumps i have seen, have had a -12 fitting which is quite large. This option would be by far the easiest i believe. Mainly for the fact that if i bought an ASR sump i wouldn't have to modify it and put in a new pick up point.

Or is it more advisable to have a new fitting on the side of the sump and use this as the pick up point. Obviously and inline strainer is required. With regards to putting in a new fitting, how is it done, is the pick up just a pipe that runs into the centre of the sump with a strainer attached, or is it done vertically?

Thanks, Daniel

[rob82]

Hey everyone, just a quick question or two about external oil pumps for RB's running a steel sump.

I've tried searching for info about this and havn't come up with a definite conclusion.

What i'm wanting to do is fit an external oil pump to my 25 NEO along with a high volume sump.

Question is, where is the best place for the scavenge side of the pump?

Would it be adequate to remove the welsh plug on the left hand side of the factory oil, put in an AN fitting and use this as the pickup point. Or would the small size of the oil gallery be too restrictive for the external oil pump. The external oil pumps i have seen, have had a -12 fitting which is quite large. This option would be by far the easiest i believe. Mainly for the fact that if i bought an ASR sump i wouldn't have to modify it and put in a new pick up point.

Or is it more advisable to have a new fitting on the side of the sump and use this as the pick up point. Obviously and inline strainer is required. With regards to putting in a new fitting, how is it done, is the pick up just a pipe that runs into the centre of the sump with a strainer attached, or is it done vertically?

Thanks, Daniel

Got to ask why? I see in your signiture that its a track car but I would seriously think about just using a good quality internal pump with maybe a larger sump volume. Most external setups only introduce less redundancy for no real gain in horsepower. There are plenty of track rb's running internal pumps with no issues.

[bigmikespec]

Make up a pick up going through the side of the sump pan about 5mm off the bottom where the OEM pick up sits.

[kitto]

Got to ask why? I see in your signiture that its a track car but I would seriously think about just using a good quality internal pump with maybe a larger sump volume. Most external setups only introduce less redundancy for no real gain in horsepower. There are plenty of track rb's running internal pumps with no issues.

This would require a collar to be fitted to the crank to run a good quality pump. I just sold my Tomei pump so i can go external.

I am in no way going external oil pump for power gains. Only for reliability, thats it. They are much more reliable than any internal pump. Of course you have fittings that can leak and there is the possibility of the belt failing which i have not heard of. I will be fitting an aluminium bash plate to prevent sticks and stones flicking up into to the pump/belt area.

An external oil pump with an accusump, a high volume sump is a bullet proof oil setup. I'm also doing this external oil pump, so that when my RB26 is built, i simply remove it from the NEO and put it onto my RB26, of course with a new sump to suit.

bigmikespec - Would you just modify the factory pickup and weld on a 90 bend and point it straight out the side of the pan?

[rob82]

This would require a collar to be fitted to the crank to run a good quality pump. I just sold my Tomei pump so i can go external.

I am in no way going external oil pump for power gains. Only for reliability, thats it. They are much more reliable than any internal pump. Of course you have fittings that can leak and there is the possibility of the belt failing which i have not heard of. I will be fitting an aluminium bash plate to prevent sticks and stones flicking up into to the pump/belt area.

An external oil pump with an accusump, a high volume sump is a bullet proof oil setup. I'm also doing this external oil pump, so that when my RB26 is built, i simply remove it from the NEO and put it onto my RB26, of course with a new sump to suit.

bigmikespec - Would you just modify the factory pickup and weld on a 90 bend and point it straight out the side of the pan?

Really I've heard of plenty of belt failures/belts walking off - but I've been in the industry for a while. If you must do it I would look closely at an EVOX sump. They integrate an external like pump into the sump.

Dont forget that your most likely going to run into oil control issues as well with the extra flow - all managable if you know what your doing.

[kitto]

Really I've heard of plenty of belt failures/belts walking off - but I've been in the industry for a while. If you must do it I would look closely at an EVOX sump. They integrate an external like pump into the sump.

Dont forget that your most likely going to run into oil control issues as well with the extra flow - all managable if you know what your doing.

Dont tell me youve seen belts throw off lol.

EVOX sump, hmm never heard of it? Any details on it? Links?

Yes, oil control is my main concern with this engine aswell as my RB26. I'm pulling the head off, throwing restrictors in, most likely i'll drill out all of the oil drains.

I'll be putting 1 or 2 -12 fittings on the RH side of the sump that will run to the top of the catch can to vent crankcase pressure. Obviously good head venting will be done. I'm trying to do every oil control mod i can think of without going overboard and overboard on spending.

The NEO comes with an N1 oil pump factory, Sure if i'm careful and avoid rev limiter and i put on a good harmonic balancer i shouldn't run into issues. But there is just that chance the gears could crack. (Waits for Ash to come on here and rant on about how good factory oil pumps are lol).

[rob82]

Dont tell me youve seen belts throw off lol.

EVOX sump, hmm never heard of it? Any details on it? Links?

Yes, oil control is my main concern with this engine aswell as my RB26. I'm pulling the head off, throwing restrictors in, most likely i'll drill out all of the oil drains.

I'll be putting 1 or 2 -12 fittings on the RH side of the sump that will run to the top of the catch can to vent crankcase pressure. Obviously good head venting will be done. I'm trying to do every oil control mod i can think of without going overboard and overboard on spending.

The NEO comes with an N1 oil pump factory, Sure if i'm careful and avoid rev limiter and i put on a good harmonic balancer i shouldn't run into issues. But there is just that chance the gears could crack. (Waits for Ash to come on here and rant on about how good factory oil pumps are lol).

I might be telling porkies - it was the golf engine that integrated the oil pump into the sump. You maybe able to run a sprocket of the crank straight into the sump if you remove the oil pump would have to make covers though.

[kitto]

Yeah nah not doing that lol. Means having to pull the crank out and fit a collar.

I'm more or less looking for a bolt on kit.

External oil pumps are pretty cheap to set up nowadays.

[Risking]

I've done heaps of these setups.

They can and do throw belts it's not all that uncommon. Make sure you have proper hob switch protection to shut the engine down.

When we do Sumps for them they have a pickup that follows the perimeter of the Sumps bowl section floor. 3/4 diameter with holes bored in the bottom to draw through, end is blocked off. There is also additional baffling Around the pick up tube. The outlet comes out at the base of the sump with a -12an fitting.

External setups require a far larger oil supply than the factory pick up can supply, you need to know the flow rates of the pump you have to design a pick up arrangement to suit it.

You'll need more than the ordinary oil control modifications with some external pumps as well.

I think you need to sit down and actually work out what your doing with it rather than trying to throw a restrictor and pick up at it.

That won't work.

[Adriano]

I actually really like where rob is heading with the sump mounted "external pump" Plenty of toyotas have these, just a chain driven pump that sits in the sump, neat and tidy.

[kitto]

I've done heaps of these setups.

They can and do throw belts it's not all that uncommon. Make sure you have proper hob switch protection to shut the engine down.

When we do Sumps for them they have a pickup that follows the perimeter of the Sumps bowl section floor. 3/4 diameter with holes bored in the bottom to draw through, end is blocked off. There is also additional baffling Around the pick up tube. The outlet comes out at the base of the sump with a -12an fitting.

External setups require a far larger oil supply than the factory pick up can supply, you need to know the flow rates of the pump you have to design a pick up arrangement to suit it.

You'll need more than the ordinary oil control modifications with some external pumps as well.

I think you need to sit down and actually work out what your doing with it rather than trying to throw a restrictor and pick up at it.

That won't work.

So how commonly do belts actually come off?

The pump im looking at using is an aviaid, it flows 16 gallons per minute which is 62 Litres/min roughly. At what RPM i can't remember.

So the sumps you build have a specially designed baffle, with the pickup on the bottom of the sump? How do you go about this with clearance issues?

By more than the ordinary oil control, what do you mean?

Cheers.