Jump to content
SAU Community

Engineering Rb30/26 In Victoria

Shoota_77

By Shoota_77,
in Engines & Forced Induction

 Share

Recommended Posts

Shoota_77 Veteran

Shoota_77

Posted
Posted

Ok, I've seen the question asked many times before but not really seen a definitive answer.

I've had dealings before with an engineer for another project so I thought I'd ask him the question.

This was his response-

You are really getting out of your depth here. The R33 engine cannot be modified other
than a pod filter OR intercooler changes. If displacement is changed as you
describe, you need to prove your still meet the emission standards for the age
of your car. In this case a full ADR 37/00 (I believe ) test cost $4000 each
time for a yes or no answer, who knows how many time you will need to test it
before you get a pass. Car companies spend millions of dollars doing this stuff
to have road going cars approved.


That kinda wasn't the response I was hoping for!

I'd love (and have no doubt others would too) to hear if anyone has had any success with an engineer or got away with just telling Vicroads you've done an engine swap.
Looks like my cae will be a track car sooner than I thought....

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/420154-engineering-rb3026-in-victoria/
Share on other sites
R31Nismoid Grand Master

R31Nismoid

Posted
Posted

The definitive answer has been posted many times before, to summarise: It is not financially viable to get a RB26/30 legally engineered.

The engineer is totally correct and is identical to what a number of users have posted over the years in this section and the Vic EPA thread.

Shoota_77 Veteran

Shoota_77

Posted
  • Author
Posted

The definitive answer has been posted many times before, to summarise: It is not financially viable to get a RB26/30 legally engineered.

The engineer is totally correct and is identical to what a number of users have posted over the years in this section and the Vic EPA thread.

God you can be a clown sometimes..... It's a real shame as some of what you offer can be useful.

Don't they need you over on www.sscommodores.com.au? I'm sure you can add some value over there?

R31Nismoid Grand Master

R31Nismoid

Posted
Posted

Sadly, some people just don't get my humour over the internet. :(

Anyway there is a fully detailed thread about it, in this very section.
You could hit the search and read/find it, valuable info in it that you are unlikely to get in this thread in 3 months... Reason I say is because a lot of those users don't post on SAU much these days, if at all.

Shoota_77 Veteran

Shoota_77

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Yeah I know what you're saying in that we don't need another "What turbo do I put on my RB20 to make 4000kw" but topics like this change over time. Laws change, different engineers have different "perceptions of the laws" and so forth.

I have used the search function and read the other topics but thought it might be interesting for others considering the same thing to see factual information directly from an engineer rather than "my mates Dad said he knew a bloke that was shaggin Robbo's sister that someone told him that it was legal".

If you get my drift.....

As I said to my engineer, it's bloody frustrating that I will now have to drive my car around illegally due to the short sighted nature of the EPA and the Government. It's in the too hard basket so they just make it impossible to get over the line legally so the owner of the modifed car doesn't bother. The Govt still win anyway as they can then get the Police to focus on finding modified cars so they can fine them and get the money that way.

I don't want my car to be illegal but there's no way I'm paying $4000 to make it otherwise...

R31Nismoid Grand Master

R31Nismoid

Posted
Posted

Emissions is probably the only thing all Engineers fear hehe, they all know it's just not worth it.

The same set-up you could rego in NSW and get it Emissions Legal for $300 with a highmount and anything you can think of (long as it passes)... But VIC is just backwards and won't let you do shit.


The only way to really get Emissions approved major mods/upgrades is to go with companies like Walkinshaw or AVO who get their kits EPA approved and go through all the testing, but then that's why their kits are expensive. That's a whole other can of worms as there are ways to circumvent certain things in the testing, but there is no way I'm going to go into that over a forum as it's very much not legal.

Shoota_77 Veteran

Shoota_77

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Good idea, what's your email address? ;) Jokes.

Yeah probably worth a try but I'm assuming the engineer knows the ins and outs of the law. It's his job to know so I would hope so anyway!

But as I alluded to earlier it's amazing how much the "perception" of the law makes. On my last (on hold) project (SR20DET into Datsun 1200 ute) I asked the same question of 3 engineers before one of them saw a loop hole (after I pointed it out admittedly) that we were able to use to get it ok'd legally. They all read into the rules what they believe to be true.

R31Nismoid Grand Master

R31Nismoid

Posted
Posted

They weren't sure if a SR20 was legal? Jebus, that's a relatively easy/common one. I think most VASS people only want to do stuff like ambulance and wheelchair certs rather than modified vehicles :(

You get lucky too cause of the age vs exhaust dB, extra 5 dB us huge room to move ;)

Shoota_77 Veteran

Shoota_77

Posted
  • Author
Posted

SR20DET is theoretically no good. SR20DE no worries. The calculation is 2.5 X tare weight of the heaviest version of the vehicle (Wagon in this instance) for a non turbo and 3 X tare weight for turbo.

So heaviest Datto 1200 at 740 kgs equals a max turbo size of 1850cc which is why CA18DET is the weapon of choice.

The loophole as such is claiming that the Ute is a "commercial vehicle" which is lets be honest, a bit of a push! It's whopping 500kg payload somehow still makes it passable. But anyway, Datty takes a back seat for now.

Shoota_77 Veteran

Shoota_77

Posted
  • Author
Posted

As Ash said earlier, it's all about the ADR's. If the car is built within ADR guidelines then it's all fine. If you modify the car outside of how it was ADR'd then you need to pay to confrim that it should still be considered safe, environmentally friendly (yeah right!) plus other shit they make up to make it even harder.

We (modified car enthusiasts) need a stronger voice in parliament to voice our opinions and give the current members a bit more of an understanding of our culture and why we do it. They currenty just blanket the whole modified car club as a pack of criminals because of the minority that do burnouts in front of schools and so forth. It's easier to hate them and presume we're all the same. Wow, sorry, bit of a rant there!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • GTSBoy
      My BMW E39 528i touring

      By GTSBoy · Posted

      Well, that's kinda the point. The calipers might interfere with the inside of the barrels 16" rims are only about 14" inside the barrels, which is ~350mm, and 334mm rotors only leave about 8mm outboard for the caliper before you get to 350, And.... that;s not gunna be enough. If the rims have a larger ID than that, you might sneak it in. I'd be putting a measuring stick inside the wheel and eyeballing the extra required for the caliper outboard of the rotor before committing to bolting it all on.
    • Duncan
      Neil's R33 Gts-t Build

      By Duncan · Posted

      OK, so again it has been a bit of a break but it was around researching what had been done since I didn't have access to Neil's records and not everything is obvious without pulling stuff apart. Happily the guy who assembled the engine had kept reasonable records, so we now know the final spec is: Bottom end: Standard block and crank Ross 86.5mm forgies, 9:1 compression Spool forged rods Standard main bolts Oil pump Spool billet gears in standard housing Aeroflow extended and baffled sump Head Freshly rebuilt standard head with new 80lb valve springs Mild porting/port match Head oil feed restrictor VCT disabled Tighe 805C reground cams (255 duration, 8.93 lift)  Adjustable cam gears on inlet/exhaust Standard head bolts, gasket not confirmed but assumed MLS External 555cc Nismo injectors Z32 AFM Bosch 023 Intank fuel pump Garret 2871 (factory housings and manifold) Hypertune FFP plenum with standard throttle   Time to book in a trip to Unigroup
    • PranK
      My BMW E39 528i touring

      By PranK · Posted

      I forgot about my shiny new plates!
    • PranK
      My BMW E39 528i touring

      By PranK · Posted

      Well, apparently they do fit, however this wont be a problem if not because the car will be stationary while i do the suspension work. I was just going to use the 16's to roll the old girl around if I needed to. I just need to get the E90 back on the road first. Yes! I'm a believer! 🙌 So, I contacted them because the site kinda sucks and I was really confused about what I'd need. They put together a package for me and because I was spraying all the seat surfaces and not doing spot fixes I decided not to send them a headrest to colour match, I just used their colour on file (and it was spot on).  I got some heavy duty cleaner, 1L of colour, a small bottle of dye hardener and a small bottle of the dye top coat. I also got a spray gun as I needed a larger nozzle than the gun I had and it was only $40 extra. From memory the total was ~$450 ish. Its not cheap but the result is awesome. They did add repair bits and pieces to the quote originally and the cost came down significantly when I said I didn't need any repair products. I did it over a weekend. The only issues I had were my own; I forgot to mix the hardener into the dye two coats but I had enough dye for 2 more coats with the hardener. I also just used up all the dye because why not and i rushed the last coat which gave me some runs. Thankfully the runs are under the headrests. The gun pattern wasn't great, very round and would have been better if it was a line. It made it a little tricky to get consistent coverage and I think having done the extra coats probably helped conceal any coverage issues. I contacted them again a few months later so I could get our X5 done (who the f**k thought white leather was a good idea for a family car?!) and they said they had some training to do in Sydney and I could get a reduced rate on the leather fix in the X5 if I let them demo their product on our car. So I agreed. When I took Bec in the E39 to pick it up, I showed them the job I'd done in my car and they were all (students included) really impressed. Note that they said the runs I created could be fixed easily at the time with a brush or an air compressor gun. So, now with the two cars done I can absolutely recommend Colourlock.  I'll take pics of both interiors and create a new thread.
    • GTSBoy
      R33 Fuel Pump & Brakes after alarm swap

      By GTSBoy · Posted

      Power is fed to the ECU when the ignition switch is switched to IGN, at terminal 58. That same wire also connects to the ECCS relay to provide both the coil power and the contact side. When the ECU sees power at 58 it switches 16 to earth, which pulls the ECCS relay on, which feeds main power into the ECU and also to a bunch of other things. None of this is directly involved in the fuel pump - it just has to happen first. The ECU will pull terminal 18 to earth when it wants the fuel pump to run. This allows the fuel pump relay to pull in, which switches power on into the rest of the fuel pump control equipment. The fuel pump control regulator is controlled from terminal 104 on the ECU and is switched high or low depending on whether the ECU thinks the pump needs to run high or low. (I don't know which way around that is, and it really doesn't matter right now). The fuel pump control reg is really just a resistor that controls how the power through the pump goes to earth. Either straight to earth, or via the resistor. This part doesn't matter much to us today. The power to the fuel pump relay comes from one of the switched wires from the IGN switch and fusebox that is not shown off to the left of this page. That power runs the fuel pump relay coil and a number of other engine peripherals. Those peripherals don't really matter. All that matters is that there should be power available at the relay when the key is in the right position. At least - I think it's switched. If it's not switched, then power will be there all the time. Either way, if you don't have power there when you need it (ie, key on) then it won't work. The input-output switching side of the relay gains its power from a line similar (but not the same as) the one that feeds the ECU. SO I presume that is switched. Again, if there is not power there when you need it, then you have to look upstream. And... the upshot of all that? There is no "ground" at the fuel pump relay. Where you say: and say that pin 1 Black/Pink is ground, that is not true. The ECU trigger is AF73, is black/pink, and is the "ground". When the ECU says it is. The Blue/White wire is the "constant" 12V to power the relay's coil. And when I say "constant", I mean it may well only be on when the key is on. As I said above. So, when the ECU says not to be running the pump (which is any time after about 3s of switching on, with no crank signal or engine speed yet), then you should see 12V at both 1 and 2. Because the 12V will be all the way up to the ECU terminal 18, waiting to be switched to ground. When the ECU switches the fuel pump on, then AF73 should go to ~0V, having been switched to ground and the voltage drop now occurring over the relay coil. 3 & 5 are easy. 5 is the other "constant" 12V, that may or may not be constant but will very much want to be there when the key is on. Same as above. 3 goes to the pump. There should never be 12V visible at 3 unless the relay is pulled in. As to where the immobiliser might have been spliced into all this.... It will either have to be on wire AF70 or AF71, whichever is most accessible near the alarm. Given that all those wires run from the engine bay fusebox or the ECU, via the driver's area to the rear of the car, it could really be either. AF70 will be the same colour from the appropriate fuse all the way to the pump. If it has been cut and is dangling, you should be able to see that  in that area somewhere. Same with AF71.   You really should be able to force the pump to run. Just jump 12V onto AF72 and it should go. That will prove that the pump itself is willing to go along with you when you sort out the upstream. You really should be able to force the fuel pump relay on. Just short AF73 to earth when the key is on. If the pump runs, then the relay is fine, and all the power up to both inputs on the relay is fine. If it doesn't run (and given that you checked the relay itself actually works) then one or both of AF70 and AF71 are not bringing power to the game.
×
×
  • Create New...