Old Tech Turbo Replacement Options, Outputs And Fitment

[hypergear]

Im quite interested, what will you do to it? New wheels and tighter rear?

Looking at dyno runs my 22psi is on at just over 5k, how much lower can you make this would you say?

Id love it to come on hard at 4 on the dot if your able to do this?

Also a bit more off boost would be mint.

Keep in mind I have a 1.05 rear so that could go .83 with no ill effects?

This just seems smarter if it will work, saves me 1500 bucks too

The T04Z is good enough for 400rwkws+ on E85. I will be using the .82 SS Alpha turbine housing for this, so you still keep your 1.05 rear just in case. The best is if you can leave the turbo with me for few weeks for me to figure out the best nozzle angles and I will get some dyno runs done with the new housing. My prediction is about 25psi around 4000~4300RPMs, and about 430rwkws. If you don't like the final result, I can send the turbocharger back to you in original housing, no charge.

[Tonba]

Sounds like you've got specs in a bit of a knot

PT6262, EFR8374 and HTA3586 are probably closest to each other in power potential. HTA3582 is a slight step down in potential power from those 3... I'd look at it like this

Power potential (give or take)

1=) PT6262/EFR8374/HTA3586

2) HTA3582

Response (give or take)

1=) HTA3582/EFR8374

2=) PT6262/HTA3586

Again, general thumbsucks extrapolating from results and comments from people who I've spoken to who have driven the setups - I'd not take it as gospel so much as a general idea of where they roughly stand. I actually suspect the HTA3586 would be slightly more responsive than the 6262 but given my lack of direct experience and knowing the following the 6262 has I'll leave it there.

The EFR8374 is a beast for the response it can provide for the power it can make. The HTA3582 would be ultra responsive, potentially a little more so but again - my lack of direct experience with the EFR means i'll leave that there too and say its just the impression I have from extrapolation.

Lith, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you.....I havent seen too many EFR results (most are from race teams - who seem quite cagey about results), but every result/graph I have seen, shows it making similar power to the HTA3582. Your talking about a 82mm exducer vs a 83mm exducer. In reality, there isnt much difference between the two.

HTA3586 / PTE6262 kinda similar.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Tonba

[GTScotT]

Lith, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you.....I havent seen too many EFR results (most are from race teams - who seem quite cagey about results), but every result/graph I have seen, shows it making similar power to the HTA3582. Your talking about a 82mm exducer vs a 83mm exducer. In reality, there isnt much difference between the two.

HTA3586 / PTE6262 kinda similar.

The inducer has more to do with power than the exducer does, wheel design has also changed the game drastically. 1mm difference in exducer size means very little on todays market.

[Tonba]

^ Agree scott, but I STILL have not seen an EFR8374 make HTA3586 power.

Only a little more then the HTA3582 (so little its not really worth mentioning... 10kW maybe?). Does this mean that Forced Performance make a superior billet wheel?? Perhaps?

Edited July 18, 2013 by Tonba

[Lithium]

Lith, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you.....I havent seen too many EFR results (most are from race teams - who seem quite cagey about results), but every result/graph I have seen, shows it making similar power to the HTA3582. Your talking about a 82mm exducer vs a 83mm exducer. In reality, there isnt much difference between the two.

HTA3586 / PTE6262 kinda similar.

Fair enough, there is little info out there still and I did offer it as what I've seen - but for what it's worth:

EFR8374 = 62mm inducer, 83mm exducer

HTA3582 = 59mm inducer, 82mm exducer

Inducer has the more significant impact on power production - hence it being used to dictate race classes (ie, 67mm, 91mm etc). Also there are not that many EFR results out there, and the ones I have seen where they are leaned on (a lot of track cars don't - while HTA3582s are more often run to their limit on drag cars) they go past most numbers I see on HTA3582s. For the most part the HTA3582 only slightly outflows a run of the mill GT3582R, whereas an EFR8374 is definitely on another level.

[Lithium]

This might put into perspective - this test was done by a Precision fanboi crowd, both turbos tested to where they stopped making more power and done on an open housing manifold and an open housing CEA PT6266 (next up from 6266) compared with a divided housing EFR8374 still on the open housing manifold (wtf is it with people doing this?) which won't have helped it's performance. You can clearly see that the 6266 makes more power, and I don't doubt that even on a properly matched manifold that while the EFR would have spool better and made more power that it did - it'd have still probably fallen slightly short at peak vs the 6266. Either way, there is no way an HTA3582 is getting near 800whp - let alone on a Mustang dyno. This is at the high end of what you'd expect from an HTA3586!

[Tonba]

Fair enough, there is little info out there still and I did offer it as what I've seen - but for what it's worth:

EFR8374 = 62mm inducer, 83mm exducer

HTA3582 = 59mm inducer, 82mm exducer

Inducer has the more significant impact on power production - hence it being used to dictate race classes (ie, 67mm, 91mm etc). Also there are not that many EFR results out there, and the ones I have seen where they are leaned on (a lot of track cars don't - while HTA3582s are more often run to their limit on drag cars) they go past most numbers I see on HTA3582s. For the most part the HTA3582 only slightly outflows a run of the mill GT3582R, whereas an EFR8374 is definitely on another level.

Im happy to see more results, and more then happy to be wrong.

One of the time attack racers that I know just Changed his turbo to an EFR8374...

HTA3582 - 450kW @ 35psi

EFR8374 - 400kW @ 30psi

HTA3586 - 500kW @ 35psi.

I dont have any dynographs unfortunatly (these time attack guys dont want to tell anyone about power / etc), but these are results I have got so far.

As Far as I know the EFR8374 nailed them both on transient response and matched the HTA3582 for spool. And I also know very well that there is more then a top figure to judge a turbos worth.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Tonba

[Lithium]

Im happy to see more results, and more then happy to be wrong.

One of the time attack racers that I know just Changed his turbo to an EFR8374...

HTA3582 - 450kW @ 35psi

EFR8374 - 400kW @ 30psi

HTA3586 - 500kW @ 35psi.

I dont have any dynographs unfortunatly (these time attack guys dont want to tell anyone about power / etc), but these are results I have got so far.

As Far as I know the EFR8374 nailed them both on transient response and matched the HTA3582 for spool. And I also know very well that there is more then a top figure to judge a turbos worth.

Why did they stop at 30psi with the EFR? Not very like for like, and it is definitely not going to be maxed out at that level

[Tonba]

Why did they stop at 30psi with the EFR? Not very like for like, and it is definitely not going to be maxed out at that level

I agree on that. Remember not a drag car. These time attack cars cop a thrashing. Hell, even Sierra Sierra evo only ran 32psi.

I believe the HTA's would have seen more power if pushed harder too. Go to the US and these turbos are pushing 40psi+.

Oh, I also belive that the reason for 30psi is running in a new gearbox / suspension setup, and wanted to get used to the setup before turning up the wick.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Tonba

[Lithium]

Ok. Just pointing out the power numbers you posted aren't really representative on anything if the turbos are not being taken to relative potential... Which is what happens a lot with EFRs given what their intention is. I have no doubt they are capable of more than the 3582

[Tonba]

^ I really wish someone would give one a decent crack...

[abr33]

The T04Z is good enough for 400rwkws+ on E85. I will be using the .82 SS Alpha turbine housing for this, so you still keep your 1.05 rear just in case. The best is if you can leave the turbo with me for few weeks for me to figure out the best nozzle angles and I will get some dyno runs done with the new housing. My prediction is about 25psi around 4000~4300RPMs, and about 430rwkws. If you don't like the final result, I can send the turbocharger back to you in original housing, no charge.

This seems like a smart idea, can you change wheels or anything too? Forking out 3k for a new turbo versus you tweaking mine up for a quarter of that seems good. I don't care if it's 500 revs laggier than a new one

[Lithium]

This would be very interesting to see. That spool if it can be achieved will be comparable with what you'd get with some of the other turbo choices mentioned, if not better - and it'd be pretty cool in general to see what can be achieved with Stao's VNT setup with a known turbocharger. If it can make a T04Z spool full boost by 4000-4300rpm on an RB25 and be reliable, potential game changer.

I could almost be tempted to get my R33 going again and send Stao an interest turbo to mess with

[abr33]

Had a chat to Stao, very knowledgable fellow, basically im thinking about possibly settling with a .82 rear on my turbo to bring it on full boost by 5k. Not sure its worth the 2k extra on a new turbo for 500 revs improvement. Still up in the air lol