V35 Vq35De 350Gt Start Up Rattle Timing Chain Issues Anyone

[dylan13n]

hi all.....

I have owned a V35 350GT A Coupe for the last couple months and am really getting pissed with the start up rattle issue..... searching many many fourums mostly g35 related in the US. i have learned its either very very common or absolutely normal.

my question to you guys is, does anyone own a v35 3.5 litre that does not have a noisy start after the car is left overnight?... im pretty keen to blow a couple grand to replace all timing chain components including the vct sprocket with genuione nissan stuff from the dealer .. but before i pull my baby off the road a few days and spend the cash i want to know that the issue can be fixed!

issue : apon a cold start ( car left over night or for a 10 hour shift at work) it fires up straight away but has a chain rattle from front timing cover for 1-2 seconds then it disapears and runs smooth and quiet all day long, even if i get heavy on the right foot and bring rpm;s up high.. no noise no rattle. its e-lala until i let it sit 10 hours then its a 1-2 second rattle at startup again..

cause : left to sit for hours the oil drains down into the sump and the hydrualic tensioners and oil actuated vct sprockets become dry... it takes 2 seconds or so of cranking/ starting to build pressure back up and put full tension on chain again for it to run smooth.

so far: i have replaced the primary tensioner accesed through the small removable window on the driverside of the timing cover with a new genuine nissan part (it is redesigned, superceeded and slightly different to original), the old one and the new one both seem to be at almost full extension when pumped up indicating a stretched chain, however the car has a genuine 50k km and is absulutely clean as a whistle inside the engine and had more than regular oil changes required.. so the chain should be 100's of 1000's of km away from any stretching realistically... there was also no wear on the main guide i could see or stretch marks/cracks in the chain and the tensioner was not broken as i have seen on others posts on g35's/quests/maximas in the US.

if i replace the chain and all associated gear (massive job, massive $$$) will the stupid thing just stretch and be f**ked again in as little as another 50,000km.... coz that is bullshit... if that is the case this is a terrible engine and nissan is no better than a great wall or a cherry. i would have thought nissan would be more on the ball than that!

i am aware of tsb's etc... but would like confirmation from other v35 owners that you can actualy fix this and its not just a traight of the engine and a waist of money to attempt to fix it.... It IS on EVERY cold start not just some. and it has never rattled on a warm start or under anY other driving condition / load ever..ever.

does anybody have a skyline/350z (vq35) that can start after sitting idle overnight and not rattle????

my other option which i am seriously considering is trading it in on a boring falcon or something but i'd be pissed to do that because as im sure you all know this car is AWESOME to drive... and looks beautifull...

[sonicii]

Mine very rarely rattles at startup.. usually only after I have left it sit for many days, and then a very short rattle, certainly less than 1 second and only seems to happen about 1-2 seconds after firing up, it doesn't make any noise from the instant it fires. I just assumed it was due to the extra time it takes to obtain full oil pressure if the engine hasn't been started for an extended period.

Just overnight or after sitting at work all day, I get no noise at all. Same with my wife's J31 Maxima with the VQ35DE engine.

Even after an oil and filter change, it doesn't have any rattle at the first startup while the filter takes a few seconds to fill with oil.

[dylan13n]

ok thanks . that's the info I'm looking for . from your post I take it you change your own oil... may I ask exactly what oil you are using. maybe some brands / viscosity pump up better or linger in the galleries better ..

Also how many km on ur v35?. I was working on a max the other day with 400,000km and it didn't have a cold start noise either (but it was running 20w50 lol).

[sonicii]

I am using castrol edge 5W-30 on both cars. I change oil and filter at 6 month intervals (because we do under 5,000km in that time)

My V35 has 103,000km. And the J31, has 83,000km.

[Nightcrawler]

I don't understand how you give a fraction of a crap about 1-2 seconds of chain noise when your car starts? Why on earth do you give half a shit? You talk about selling the car and buying a Falcon because of it? Talk about first world problems!

If it really irks you, fit a remote start and you never hear the thing start anyways, as you will be in a different room or far enough away from the car. I couldn't tell you if mine does it or not - I am either not near the car when I start it, or I am sitting in it with the stereo on. Can't say I have ever noticed it and mine has just ticked over 140k. I run Nulon semi-syn 10W40.

[dylan13n]

yeh . thanks for reply .. I know .. You make me feel like a farkin 'fuddy-duddy' . but it pisses me off .. not only that but metal on metal contact (even for a couple seconds) is a pretty nasty thing to hear from the engine bay .. . it WILL be causing harm .. I haven't had any metal in oil whatsoever though so that's the main thing .. I mean c'mon man if your car started making narly noises you would be pissed.. if it was a $1500 heap of shit and was running on stop smoke and chemi weld I could care less .. but it's otherwise beautifull .. .. definitely get where your comin from though .. guess I'm just worried there's worse to come ...

thanks for the input ..

[dylan13n]

First world problems haha ....I like that .. Gd one

[scotty nm35]

Sounds like you have a dodgy oil filter, I know the Drift oil filters did this in mine due to the non-return valve leaking overnight.

Too thin an oil may cause noise too. 10W40 all the way.

[INSANITI]

I think i hear this problem on my car too.... more of a grind than a rattle though. only hear it when car doesn't get used for a few days.....

so do you think its the oil? i use 5w-30.

don't mind it much as it has warranty. only problem is the yard that provides warranty wont look at your car until you take it back to them 1million times. hehe

[V35_Paul]

I have this happen to mine as well since the day I got it. But only very rarely like once a month.

I've read up on it and it does seem common and doesn't do any harm, except sound bad.

I've had my V for about 6 years now.

Can't hurt to try 10w-40

[dylan13n]

It is a noted issue on the u.s. models (g35) but . I'm not 100 percent sure there engines are made in japan like ours because they do build vq35de in America aswell for other nissan models ..(quest etc). (Kind of like how they build some triumph bikes in the uk but in aus we get Thailand made triumphs).. I am about 80 percent sure it's to do with the vct leaking oil slowly overnight (or over a few days for some of the cars with slower leaks). And takes a second to pump oil back in in start up. the issue Is TSB'd in the US for maximas etc. That run the same vq35de (same cams , same chains and same VCT as our v35's.. ). But I struggle to believe it causes no harm .. even if it's a second or two it's still accelerated wear on the chain/ guides etc. I love the way this car drives and handles and pulls hard . it's also smooth and quiet so I think I may at some stage replace the vct (and new chains and guides wile I'm at it). the worst part is that the vct sprockets are $640 each from nissan dealer and there is no such aftermarket part !!. wish I could find a good source for cheaper ones as if I can not identify the faulty one once the covers are removed I will have to buy two!. (I ain't doing this job twice!. )...

[scotty nm35]

You can check them by unplugging the blue plug in front of the rocker cover.

There are so many little bleed points in the oil system, and all need to pump up with oil on startup. My engine doesn't rattle, so what part is actually worn in yours to cause it do you think? There are hundreds of parts that could cause chain rattle type noise. Why pick on that particular one before even opening the engine?

[Hertz Donut]

Can't say I've ever heard it on my PNM35, what does it sound like exactly? I do have a noise that sounds like some thin metal rattling against something more solid at around 2300-2600rpm but I'm guessing that's just a loose screw on a shield or the outer wall of the exhaust rattling since it's corroding away.

[dylan13n]

@scotty - your talking about the plug on the vct solonoid .?... that only activates at around 2000rpm to vary oil pressure to vct sprocket assembly and advance the intake cam timing for higher rpms. . I can't see how that would prove if the sprocket is leaking down overnight.

But you are correct that it is only a theory . what I'm sure of it's from the chain area and not hundreds of parts just 3 chains, 3 tensioners and a few sprockets and guides .. The only pats filled with oil are the 3 tensioners and the two variable sprockets on intake cams ... gues it's a moot point as when I finally get some leave from work I will pull timing cover off and have a good suss . Because it's a prick of a job I might just fork out the extra 1200 for the two sprockets as well as replacing everything else in there ...

@ hertz - Have someone hold rpm's where rattle is in nutral . And listen around .. Could very well be a loose hearshield or something very minor . may be as simple as tightening it up... thanks for the replies ..

[scotty nm35]

If the sprockets are empty you won't hear anything, they just won't advance. The tensioners being empty, that is a different story. The main tensioner has a ratchet mechanism to stop it backing off, but the two smaller chains at the top don't have this.

If you're not running a 10w40 I would suggest that first, as thinner oil will bleed down much easier. As I said though, any path for the oil to get back to the sump could be an issue, I would be trying a different brand of oil filter first, just in case. If it still rattles, I would suspect the top tensioner on one side is worn, but I think it's an engine out job. They are mounted in a stupid spot.

[dylan13n]

Tried and tried . nah it's not engine out or head off on a v35 I will do it in car .. Bottom half of sump off and rover covers , ancillaries that's it, maybe fans out of the way and there will b plenty room .. To poke me head and hands in there .. Maybe there's less room in ya steg I don't know .. . nissan have a technical service bulliten for vct sprockets draining an making cold start noise on vq35de (overseas models) that's why I blamed one of them...

Cheers for the advise . I did switch to 10w40 and oem filter and it is less now but maybe I'm picky ....

[scotty nm35]

Sounds like the damage is done then. Why not try a slightly thicker oil again? it's cheaper than replacing the valve train components that are obviously working fine most of the time. It's probably just a high K engine...

[sonicii]

I'm not intending to question Scotty's extensive experience, but just thought I would let you know the V35 manual doesn't show any oil heavier than 10W-40 (with 5W-30 preferred), on the chart.

The Chart for the VQ35DE in the Aust delivered J31 Maxima also shows 5W-30 as 'preferred', but list oil up to 20W-50 for ambient temperatures above -10degC. Not sure if the fact the VQ35DE in the Maxima is considerably detuned makes it less sensitive to oil weight, or if most areas in Japan will see temps below -10degC and therefore Nissan didn't list an oil suitable for higher temperatures for JDM vehicles?

[scotty nm35]

Nissan have no clue what to run in a 200,000k old motor either. A trial of 15w40 isn't going to wreck the engine... I am running 10w60 at the moment and other than a slightly higher oil pressure and 10 degree hotter oil temps, I haven't noticed any difference driving it.

[dylan13n]

Thanks guys I'm not gonna mask it with thicker oil . 10w40 is enough.. I will be pulling timing cover off in a couple months and il b sure to get pics if it might help anyone down the line I can post them on here at that stage . I will have good suss and replace everything suspect while I'm in there I will let u guys know how it goes