How much will this cost me?

[benro2]

Hi guys,

I'm a newbie here, and I don't actually own a Skyline (yet). However, I've got a number of good questions for you, so thanks in advance!

I'm considering an R33 GTR, and want to get around 500hp (flywheel) out of it. I'm wondering which parts would be the best for this (with some room left for higher outputs for the future), and approximately how much they will cost in total, incl. labour and tuning time? I don't want to lose too much bottom end torque, in other words, it has to be very driveable, and will mostly be used as an "everyday" car, but I anticipate I'll start going to the drags, also do a bit of track work, etc. etc. Oh yeah, I want to be able to run the car on 98 octane fuel as well

I spotted this video of an R34 GTR by MINE: http://racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=293&p=6

According to someone at the forum, it has 600hp (not sure whether at the flywheel or wheels). Now *that's* what I'm after. Someone on there also mentioned that it uses two 2530's, which I've also seen a few people recommend in here. Although you never really see the car below 4000 rpm, the power band seems to be fairly linear, which is what I'm looking for.

Now this may seem like a stupid question, but as far as I can see, there's no other way of asking it: is the amount of power (and driveability) you get for your money directly proportional, or are there "points" along the way where you may as well spend a relatively small amount for a relatively big gain? I'm asking this because I figured you guys would be able to help me with my 500hp goal. Should I go for 600hp (what I'd really like, but beyond that is a long way off ), or is that a lot more money? In other words, is 500hp for a GTR a good "point" or is it better value (in terms of $/kw) to go for, say 550 or 600hp?

In case you're wondering about my budget, well I'm not exactly sure, as I don't have the car yet (figuring around $35K for one with

OK then, that's about all I can think of for now,

Ben

[INASNT]

You will never get the responsiveness like that mines gtr with just basic mods as they show in the video as there is so much more to the car mines wont tell you.

[EVL R33]

Ben,

Depending on the condition of the motor you can run 500hp at the fly all day on stock internals with a good tune. Once you start heading towards 600hp it's rebuild time sooner rather than later which will add around 10k to your bill...

I'm running 2530's, bigger cooler, PFC, 700cc injectors, Z32afm's, twin plate clutch etc and have around 420hp at all 4 wheels on 1.3bar.. You do get used to the power but it is still a seriously fast street car at that level. The 2530's boost up pretty much the same speed as the stockies, but midrange and top end is WAYYYYYY better...

To answer your question regarding money spent v's gains, the first few thousand you spend will net you the biggest jump in power, Ie exhaust, boost, turbs etc.. After that you start spending more on reliability and safeguards (ie bigger injectors, fuel pump etc).. These will allow you to run more boost to get more power but the gains won't be as great as the first couple I mentioned.

If you intend to mod the gtr and run it on 98 octane then some sort of aftermarket management will be required... Lots of different choices, I'd go for one that a local tuner you trust has experience with..

In the end, 500hp is not hard to get out of a gtr with minimal bolt on mods and will be very lively to drive on the street and around a track.. You'd be looking at mid 11's on the strip with around that power too....

Cheers

Brett

[meshmesh]

Exactly like EVL R33 said...

See this attachment for basic rundown on costs to get you around 500+hp at the fly.. Ofcourse the next step is engine rebuild, which is only limited to your wallet.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...132&postcount=1

[ferni]

werd on mesh and evl said

[benro2]

OK thanks guys for all the info!

I just had another idea, which again seems pretty stupid, even to me

What about a triple-turbo GTR? I don't think I'd ever attempt it myself, but rather than buying two new turbos, how about simply adding on a 3rd stock turbo? Assuming you've started with a stock car, would the work required to get this idea working be more than simply buying two bigger turbos? But for the "wow" factor, I like the idea of a triple-turbo!

So mesh, how does your car drive? What about the clutch? Is it OK or a bit of a bitch? That's one other thing I forgot to mention - I'd like the clutch to be fairly smooth and progressive if possible, unlike some of these nasty ones I see floating around that are basically "on" or "off" So, if I spend a bit more on tuning, I could possibly get a better bottom end response?

Now this is something totally unrelated: my dad reckons that one of his friend's sons has an older Supra with a hand-controller thing (don't know the name ) which allows him to adjust the ECU, which he apparently picked up for around $80. This guy's a bit of an engineering/mechanic-type guy, and the thing allows you to put some presets in for how you want to drive. He has one for performance, fuel economy, etc. etc. Is this the same as what one of those aftermarket ECU's will do, except it's not pre-tuned? Is it possible to get one of these for the Skyline, and how hard is it to use one? What about getting one pre-tuned by an expert, then messing around with it yourself afterwards to try and improve on it? I know you obviously have to know what you're doing, except I wouldn't mind having a play around with one. My dad's OK with this sort of stuff, so if I ever got into any sort of trouble, I'm sure he'd be able to undo my work

Ben

Edit: oh and BTW, it seems my guess of $10-15K for mods was about right, looking at the linked thread. I think I'd stretch to $16,730 for 320rwkw. BTW, what drivetrain loss is factored in for GTR's?

[INASNT]

pfft 3 turbos!!!

Id go 4 for sure

[ferni]

hahahah, 3 turbos isn't as simple as your thinking

[benro2]

Nope, didn't think a triple turbo would be easy, as I've seen a triple turbo Supra and the amount of pipework on that was ridiculous. But still, someone's gotta attempt it!

Oh yeah, but with that Supra I think the guy still wanted the sequential setup, which would have added a lot of pipework. So with a straight triple-turbo setup, how hard could it be? :jk:

[INASNT]

And would be a total waste of time unless you had atleast 2 more cyclinders

[benro2]

BTW ferni, I checked out the photos of your car and I really like the colour! I can't say I've ever seen that colour before. Is it overly rare?

Ben

[EVL R33]

Ben,

Considering that 3 out of the first 4 responses you got were from guys with Midnight Purple R33 GTR's I think that says a lot about how rare the colour is.. There would be at least another 3 or 4 R33's that colour on the forums, and I would say over 50% of R33 GTR's I see in mags owned in aust. are midnight purple!!!!! ha ha ha

[SS8_Gohan]

What i think is very important, and seems to take a bit of a back seat in the modification stakes, are things like suspension/tyres/light weight components/weight saving. If you're after better response and driveability, don't just focus on getting more horsies.

cheers

[benro2]

EVL, since I'm new to these forums, I don't know anyone here, so I didn't know what colour car they owned. Your avatar is sort of ghosted so I can't tell the colour properly, and I can't see any links to pics of your car.

What I meant about rare is that I don't ever recall seeing one on the road. I usually take note of the colour of Skylines as they drive past, and most seem to be silver, black, white or dark red. Oh yeah, blue as well Was Midnight Purple a colour specific to the R33 and/or GTR model?

SS8, thanks for the suggestion. I think people go for more horsepower because it looks more impressive on paper. Also, and I'm just guessing here, I would say that decreasing the weight of the car would cost more than increasing the power. I was also planning to do a good suspension/tyres job as well, but that would be on top of the engine mod costs. Trust me, I know the importance of these things, so they certainly weren't taking a back seat to engine mods. However, I do have a better idea of the cost of these, whereas there are so many damn options and combinations with the engine mods that I just wanted to know the most reliable and cheap way to get the power/driveability that I want.

Ben

[EVL R33]

Ben, I didn't mean anything nasty by the post, it was more a poke at how many midnight purple GTR's we have on the forums... For a supposedly 'rare' colour there are a lot of them around the place!!!! ha ha ha

It is a factory colour for R33 GTR's, though they did release an anniversary edition GTS25t in the same colour. And R34's have Midnight Purple II and III in their colour range.

Getting back to the point of your thread, I'd suggest going to a couple of SAU cruises and picking peoples brains about what mods worked the best etc. You might even score a ride or three in a couple of 500+hp GTR's to get an idea of just how much fun they are..

Cheers

Brett

[meshmesh]

What i think is very important, and seems to take a bit of a back seat in the modification stakes, are things like suspension/tyres/light weight components/weight saving. If you're after better response and driveability, don't just focus on getting more horsies.  

cheers

Very good point SS8_Gohan, "something I'd like to do on the next car". And as comparison, the cost to get 260-280kw at the wheels from a GTR is minimal, exhausts, computer and some boost. probaly $2500-3000.

The next stage, like what I have done will get you 310-340kw at the wheels and wil cost an extra $11-14,000K. Some might say why only an extra 40+KW? which doesn't really explain the power benefits, because the power gain is everywhere in RPM range and not just the top end.

In hindsight, you could save the $11-14,000K, and spend it on weight reduction/suspension. I think with that sort of money you should easily loose 200-300kg, by replacing stock panels with carbon fibre.

I spoke to someone who plans on doing a similar project with an R32 GTR, who got a quote from that carbon mob in sydney/or queensland "forget exactly" to replace the bonnet, front bumper, front guards, rear boot, and door with carbon fibre for around $7-8K. The beauty is you can paint them to look stock... just not sure about safety & ADR.

[lwells]

This thread has a lot of good information on the Mines Response R34 and the kind of mods that will make you car more responsive:

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...ead.php?t=33247

You can find a complete rundown on the parts in the Mines car at their website although the sum of the parts does not equal a responsive car: so much of it has to do with the magic tuning

http://www.mines-wave.com/Demo-Car/R34gtr/index.html

meshmesh: that carbon mob was probably Custom Carbon -- http://www.customcarbon.com.au/default.html

I think you would have a heard time with the ADRs if you replaced the doors... What I want is a carbon fibre prop shaft.

Lucien.

[meshmesh]

thanks lucien,

I have a picture of the mines R34N1 where my wedding photo should be :).

We concluded a number of thing from those threads... It's unlikely MINES would fully disclose the actual parts/mods list. One thing where are led to believe is that the R34 uses R33 GTR Diffs for the lower gearing coupled to the 6speed box, which enhance's it's response. Only by watching the vid is it possible to explain how unbeliebably "FAAAST" the Mines car revs through the range.

Yep, there the guys... Custom Carbon -- http://www.customcarbon.com.au/default.html

[lwells]

Yeah, I am sure even if you copied exactly what is listed on the Mines website (or listed in the BMI video) it wouldn't be as responsive as their car, but that's no reason not to try because you would still end up with a damn responsive car IMHO.

LW.

[Merli]

Ben,

Considering that 3 out of the first 4 responses you got were from guys with Midnight Purple R33 GTR's I think that says a lot about how rare the colour is..   There would be at least another 3 or 4 R33's that colour on the forums,  and I would say over 50% of R33 GTR's I see in mags owned in aust. are midnight purple!!!!!  ha ha ha

I know of TWO Midnight Purple GTRs in NSW.

Just because they're like whores in Melbourne, doesn't mean that they're common in the big picture It's a fact that there were a LOT less Midnight Purple GTRs made than say Silver, White and Black ones.