Q&a: How To Import, Legality.

[Matvei27]

The problem HarrisRacing seems to have is that state and federal legality are two different things...

But beyond that, and since this topic falls under multiple federal agencies, is that not all of them have to agree (and typically don't, just look at the twenty one year exemption for EPA vs. the twenty five year exemption for NHTSA). If ONE of those federal agencies disagrees with something, it's done. The NHTSA says it either has to conform or be over twenty five years old to be eligible for "exempt" status. This vehicle is neither. The GSA might say it's legal, but the NHTSA doesn't.

Government agencies don't work well together, contrary to what you might believe. That's the point I think Matvei is trying to make here. One agency saying it's legal doesn't mean it is *completely* legal.

Exactly. But since EPA and NHTSA make the most important rules of all, the state laws tend not to be such a big deal (except for California, but even then you can get it registered as long as you pay for their test procedure).

[tyndago]

In the US, Customs/DHS controls entry.

#1 Customs/DHS

Under them, the NHTSA handles safety standards. They require a HS7 to be filled out.

#1a - NHTSA - HS7

Alongside them, we have the EPA that handles emissions

#1b EPA - 3520-1

When a car enters the country you need some kind of ownership document

#1c Ownership doc

You also need an invoice to show value so you can pay tariff

#1d - Invoice

So unless a vehicle came in though Customs/DHS, NHTSA cleared it, EPA cleared it, there is some kind of title, and you paid tariff, it was not done correctly.

A seized car, that was seized due to non-compliance is required to be exported or destroyed. Now never saying those people don't make mistakes. I have seen it many times.

State title, we see it all the time.

There are 100 ways to do things illegally, to bypass the law, but there is ONE way to do it right.

Its like saying I did drugs in my house last week and no one caught me. I am fine. I see people all the time ignorantly spouting off about what they have, what they "got away" with.

[HarrisRacing]

In the US, Customs/DHS controls entry.

#1 Customs/DHS

Under them, the NHTSA handles safety standards. They require a HS7 to be filled out. And listed in which states: vehicles manufactured 25 years (or greater) prior to the date of importation are not required to follow any NHTSA or FMVSS rules In order to be allowed to enter the country.

#1a - NHTSA - HS7

Alongside them, we have the EPA that handles emissions. Similar as above except only YEAR of manufacturer is the comparing variable and the checkbox that applies deals with vehicles manufactured 21 years or later from YEAR of manufacture are excluded from following current EPA rules.

#1b EPA - 3520-1

When a car enters the country you need some kind of ownership document.

#1c Ownership doc

You also need an invoice to show value so you can pay tariff

#1d - Invoice

So unless a vehicle came in though Customs/DHS, NHTSA cleared it, EPA cleared it, there is some kind of title, and you paid tariff, it was not IMPORTED correctly.

A seized car, that was seized due to non-compliance is required to be exported or destroyed [and likely should NOT have received an (sf)97 which throws a total unknown into my car's history]. Now never saying those people don't make mistakes. I have seen it many times.

State title, we see it all the time.

There are 100 ways to do things illegally, to bypass the law, but there is ONE way to do it right.

Its like saying I did drugs in my house last week and no one caught me. I am fine. I see people all the time ignorantly spouting off about what they have, what they "got away" with.

To me, more like saying: Someone smuggled in cuban cigars that were then seized by the government, someone in the government then rebranded them (accidentally) for sale as US cigars, then a cigar shop bought those at auction and then sold them as US cigars and now after a long time the US-Cuban embargo has lifted and now Cuban cigars ARE legal for purchase in the US.

So let me ask is ANYONE still tasked with looking for Cuban cigars or cares that back in the day the cigar imporation process was skirted?

How in the world do you think they would possibly find cars that WERE black market cars amongst all the cars being imported now?

Eventually those HS-7's and 1320-1's will be lost in transfer. And it's CLEAR from the EPA and NHTSA websites that they do NOT have the ability to track clearance with VIN numbers, so really...how would they even accomplish such a task?

What do you think about my comments? Not trying to be funny, but rather trying to reasonable.

As much as you guys would like to paint the government as this unreasonable door-kicking-in guns-blasting group of thugs, I'd think they have bigger border control problems than some 25 year old cars that have been here for years that they may have accidentally released to the public for sale.

NOT SAYING I WOULD ILLEGALLY IMPORT ANYTHING, just trying to be reasonable!!!

Edited April 23, 2015 by HarrisRacing

[tyndago]

"As much as you guys would like to paint the government as this unreasonable door-kicking-in guns-blasting group of thugs, I'd think they have bigger border control problems than some 25 year old cars that have been here for years that they may have accidentally released to the public for sale."

Ever hear of Kaizo? They were door kicking in agents that picked up many of those cars. http://www.importavehicle.info/2009/10/kaizo-drama-thus-far.html

How about the recently Land Rover debacle?

Its not if in your case, its when. You might be the one holding the hot potato.

http://www.importavehicle.info/2013/06/seized-nissan-skyline-gt-r-r33-for-sale.html

http://www.importavehicle.info/2014/08/40-land-rovers-seized-in-vin-tampering.html

http://www.importavehicle.info/2010/07/another-seized-car-r32-gt-r-canadian.html

http://www.importavehicle.info/2011/03/state-titled-nissan-skyline-gets-seized.html

http://www.importavehicle.info/2014/10/unpleasant-truths-comforting-lies.html

http://www.importavehicle.info/2008/01/seized-r34-gt-rs-and-s15.html

http://www.importavehicle.info/2009/12/ice-seizes-300000-cizeta-v16-kaizo.html

[HarrisRacing]

Did you really just post a bunch of links from an importer's website with an agenda to sell you imported cars? Really?

And...the "cases" cited regard: VIN swapping, importation illegally, reconstruction of incorrect VIN vehicles, as well as many in california which we all know importing legally past feds is only half the battle.

And Kaizo?! Already covered...a clever VIN swap game of taking cars apart and reassembling as kit cars. This is covered previously.

ALL of the cars listed were NOT over 25 years old when seized...this includes the fake VIN'd land rover.

Can you elaborate on the cfr regarding use and legalities of (sf) 97?

Edited April 24, 2015 by HarrisRacing

[HarrisRacing]

Oh it's YOUR website!

[Matvei27]

Kaizo was not a simple VIN swap. They were recognized as a manufacturer in most states.

Caterham and Arial do something similar but they require you to purchase the engine and drivetrain separately and install it yourself or via a third party. (which is how you have to do it if you want your imported kit car to be legal).

It's a total grey area. Against the spirit of the law but not the letter. Doesn't apply in this case anyway since your car has a drivetrain and a (albeit non-working) engine.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Matvei27

[tyndago]

The question is how and why was the vehicle seized?

If it were seized due to non compliance, and not a street legal vehicle, then it should never have got a SF-97. Again, does it happen? Sure it does. I've seen everything done the right way, and done the wrong way.

The SF-97 is for the case of a government owned, street legal car, truck, etc that is in turn sold. It gives them the authority to "print their own title". This document can then be turned into a title.

The question again is - why was it seized? Otherwise its just a game of how long can you hide something from the government.

[RosieR34]

All i learnt in this thread is that the US has an extreme amount of acronyms.....

[GSX-R35]

All i learnt in this thread is that the US has an extreme amount of acronyms.....

It's just typical government red tape. Still and all, I can't complain since it's a damn sight better than the third-world country I grew up in lol. Compared to the corrupt and inefficient government back in my original homeland I'll take the US any day. Between importing myself, importing this car, and owning firearms as a hobby I've dealt with federal paperwork a bunch of times and it all works out eventually even without any "under-the-table" shenanigans lol.