Oil Extreme (oil additive similar to Roil)

[JimX]

I don't think anyone here knows much about it (including me), but I thought I would ask anyway.

Rather than go into all the technical details about it here, if you don't know about Oil Extreme, have a read of their product articles, for their concentrate additive and their motor oil

The biggest difference I found between Roil and Oil Extreme is there is a lot more information on Oil Extreme, and why its main ingredient is better than the others, whether they are secret or public. This is the main reason why I am going to be getting Oil Extreme in the future (whether the full oil or just the concentrate), but there are a still unanswered questions I have which is the point of this thread.

1. Their oil is mineral based and not synthetic based. The first thing you'd assume is that since it's mineral based it can't possibly be as good as synthetic, which is what I also assumed. But they do a pretty good job of explaining why it's better than synthetic (it's even their catchphrase for it). What I want to know is, is it possible that a mineral based oil can be as good or better than a synthetic? If so why, and if not why not?

2. Assuming that it is better than average, does this mean you can extend the drain intervals, and if so by how much? My mechanic said that this oil can go up to 100 000 (that's 10-20 times a standard drain interval) before it needs changing, but he said to change the oil filter ever 5000. Now, I'm not going to do anywhere near 100k km without draining, but even if I can double my standard 5000 to 10000, that's still saved me money and potentially given me a better quality oil as well. The oil is around $100 for 5 litres. So if I can extend my drain interval from 5000 to 10000 (still changing the filter at 5000) it should save me a bit of money and hassle, but if I can't then I may as well just stick to a cheaper synthetic and stick the concentrate in.

3. Is there any information about whether or not calcium carbonate is bad for your engine? I know that it works as a good ant-acid for your stomach So in theory that means it might also help stop acids forming in your engine from other parts of your oil. The Oil Extreme site says why calcium carbonate won't harm your engine but it'd be nice to have an independant source.

I forget the price of the concentrate, but once I get the price I'll put it up in here. From memory it was less than $20 a bottle, but I could be wrong. Also this mechanic has been using it in his turbo rotary cars (RX3, RX7, Cosmo) for many years now, so there's no doubt at all that it works well with turbos.

I've been using the Oil Extreme concentrate for the past few thousand km in my R33, and so far the only things I've noticed is slightly better economy and power, pretty much in line with what people have been getting from Roil. So for me it now really comes down to which product will do less harm to your engine in the long run (which until Roil come clean with what their ingredient is, is Oil Extreme by default for me).

[Bass Junky]

Firstly I wouldn't really go 10,000 ks without oil change, as one of the purposes of Engine Oil, is to absorb the crap left over from combustion. That's why it goes black.

therefore, you wouldn't really want all the crap floating around in you engine for that period of time.

BASS OUT

[krawler]

Regular oil changes and over all good car maintainence negates the need for any snake oil.

If you are trying to save money, catch a bus instead of driving your car.

[JimX]

Firstly I wouldn't really go 10,000 ks without oil change, as one of the purposes of Engine Oil, is to absorb the crap left over from combustion.  That's why it goes black.

therefore, you wouldn't really want all the crap floating around in you engine for that period of time.

BASS OUT

That's why the oil filter gets changed at 5000km.

Krawler, maybe you need to do some more research yourself rather than just quoting a bunch of websites. Did you even read the Oil Extreme articles? Specifically the If you can find specific proof that Oil Extreme's oil is bogus or ineffectual? Forget the concentrate for a minute, just their oil specifcally. I've got a feeling that you jack shit about what you're talking about.

Also you missed the point of my post. It wasn't to save money, it was to run better oil at lower cost.

[krawler]

I can add my own testamonial if you'd like:

I've tried quite a few brands of snake oil, and none of them have done dick-all.

I think the companies work on the idea that if everyone only buys it once, they still make money. Thats why there are so many different brands produced by the same company.

At the end of the day, if you feel that you are helping protect your engine with magical fairy dust then thats fine. I'll stick to the tried and tested methods of good maintainence instead of a lucky charm.

[JimX]

Krawler, at least now I can see why you're trying to belittle everyone for trying additives. You've got your own insecure past of being an uninformed, ignorant, consumer whore. I have tried a total of *one* oil additive, that being Oil Extreme firstly in my Commodore. And I even didn't use that for 2 years after getting my Skyline, because I wasn't sure if it was going to do any good. I was tempted to use Roil based on other people's experiences with it, but ended up not doing so because I can't find out what the secret ingredient is. But the good results I saw people having with Roil is the only reason I even bothered considering using Oil Extreme again. The mechanic I went to a few years ago still swears by it and uses it. I only bothered using Oil Extreme based on my mechanic's testimonial and the information given on the Oil Extreme website.

I just didn't decide to do some experimenting with additives for the hell of it, unlike you have done in the past. If you've bought random additives to try and do who knows what (you never specified) for your car in the past and failed, that's a big failure on your part but no reason to belittle anyone else trying to look for something more useful in the present.

I clicked on a few of your links and I didn't see one reference to calcium carbonate. Perhaps I just don't have to patience to sift through them all, could you please point me to one which says it'll wreck your engine? Either post something more constructive or shut the hell up. Your arrogant testimonial means nothing to me.

[krawler]

I clicked on a few of your links and I didn't see one reference to calcium carbonate. Perhaps I just don't have to patience to sift through them all, could you please point me to one which says it'll wreck your engine? Either post something more constructive or shut the hell up. Your arrogant testimonial means nothing to me.

Considering the links were for snake oil in general, I'm not overly surprised you didnt find any references to oil xtreme and its magical calcium carbonate fighting properties. Just look for another snake oil made by the same manufacturer, its sure to appear in there somewhere under another product name.

I'm awfully sorry my "arrogant" testimonial doesnt fit in with your belief. Luckily all those "selfless, helpful, informative" testmonials exist that support your claims.

Just out of interest ... You dont find my posts constructive because they dont agree with you? Welcome to a forum, where peoples opinions may differ occasionally.

[JimX]

Ah FFS. Do I have to spell it out for you at the risk of being labelled Captain Obvious? I don't have a problem with your opinion. I have a problem with the following.

1. Your comment "If you are trying to save money, catch a bus instead of driving your car." Not only condescending, but illustrating your inability to comprehend what I was saying. Most likely, you just didn't bother reading what I wrote properly. That in itself is contemptible.

2. Your various links, none of which you seem to understand. None of which addressing the questions I asked, and none of them mentioning Oil Extreme or calcium carbonate (and, with respects to the Roil thread, none mentioning Roil).

3. Your assertion that since you've tried "quite a few" additives and they didn't work, they must all be useless. I don't think you realised that this would make you look like more of a fool than you were already by this stage.

4. Even after asking you to link specific articles about Oil Extreme or calcium carbonate, you just fire off another useless arrogant response.

5. You seem to be what I like to call an "internet genius". Someone that googles a few terms, finds a few links, reads a few sentences to establish that they agree with what they're trying to say, and then compile a big list of them and put them up publically so as to look like they're well-learned. This is without actually understanding much (if anything) of the links they've posted.

I did not want this thread to degerate into the argument fest it has become, and I don't think there are many people here that appreciate anything about this thread. Sure, they may have more of a problem with my long winded replies to you, but you're the first one to write something offensive. There are plenty of threads out there in which I disagree with what is said, but hardly any (if any) have ended up like this. For these reasons I place the blame of this solely on you.

If you really wanted to be helpful all you needed to say is "I've tried a whole bunch of oil additives, none of them were Roil or Oil Extreme, and none of them did any good". Even that would be totally useless, but still not as offensive as what you origijnally wrote, and I could have simply ignored it. But you had to throw your 2c in as well which is really what pisses me off. And it's not just me either, you managed to do a similar thing to other people in the Roil thread. I'd join in there too but it's just easier for me to type this all out once here.

For proof that I can appreciate a differing opinion without taking offence, take a look at my reply to Bass Junky in this thread. I still don't know if it's ok to leave oil in for 10k km if you change the filter at 5k, but the worst case here is we may have agreed to disagree. It's called being civil, and that's something you failed to do from the outset.

Door's to your left, please don't let it smack you on the arse on the way out.

[Bass Junky]

JimX

Take a bow.

Nice.

krawler

Drive your 82 KA Laser off a cliff.

[Zahos]

hahahahahaha

EXACTLY why I never bother to post much on forums...

There have been countless times I have begun constructing a response to a question or assertion, and half way through I have realised "One of these internet genius' will definately start an argument here", so I just forget about posting.....

If it were all verbal, I would express my opinion, but usually I really cant be bothered typing a detailed explanation as to why someone's response or attitude is worthless just like JimX has......

Well done JimX, take a bow indeed, but it pissed me off that you were forced into typing that response when you shouldn't have had to...

Zahos

[JimX]

Edit: Ok, everyone seems to have calmed down now (me included). And some more useful info has been posted. No need to close it I guess.

[Emre]

The problem is that you will not find much in the way of factual data concerning any of these additives. Lots and lots of testimonials is all you will find on the subject.

IMO, a good esther based oil is all you need.

You may find this link interesting.

[krawler]

I found this particular thread interesting:

http://forums.noria.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=...995&m=165108422

Some of the specific quotes:

It is fairly well accepted that timken tests, and the 4 ball wear scar test show interesting things, but do not necessarily illustrate what will happen to a lubricant in an engine. The tests are in fact much more useful for greases and similar lubes that are not exposed to combustion byproducts and temps. An example of this would be the Teflon based snake oils which perform well on the Timken, and even cut some friction inside the engine, but at the price of greatly increased wear, and a risk of clogged passages and filters.

Passing a corrosion test does not prove anything other than it passes the corrosion test under the conditions it was run at. If you run the test at a slightly higher temperature it could fail quickly. Carbon - halogen bonds tend to be stable at a certain temperature, but raising the temperature 10 degrees C could result in rapid decomposition and metal attack.

If you have the patience, read the entire 2 page thread.

[JimX]

Ok I just thought of something last night, and this is something not addressed by the Oil Extreme site. This is just about their motor oil, not the concentrate.

Even though Oil Extreme oil is apparently purified more than synthetics, it is still has a mineral base. From everything I've read, synthetics have a higher breakdown temperature than mineral oils. So it's entirely possible that Oil Extreme oil is higher quality and will go longer without changing than most synthetics. However, since it's a mineral oil, it will break down at a lower temperature than a good synthetic (I assume so since the Oil Extreme site says nothing to contradict this). This shouldn't be much of a concern for a NA engine, but with our turbos running ultra hot, it's probably not a good idea to use a mineral oil no matter what quality it is. My mechanic changes his oil between track days for his track cars, but I don't know how long he leaves it for his street cars.

So my conclusion is I will stick to using synthetic and changing it every 5000, but adding the concentrate in.

[NismoGirl]

I didnt elaborate very well on my quotes as I was on my out, but I was trying to high light my overall concern with snake oils which is the test results they provide are not always relevant to the operation we will be using them in.

EOF.

[Emre]

There are different types of syntethic oils Jim,

Group 3 oils are mineral based and have gone through a lot of purification processes.

True syntethic oils are either PAOs, diesters or polyolesters. These oils are not purified, rather they are pure to start with as they are man made in a lab. No mineral based oil will come close to these oils, in quality or ability.

If you still have the need to add an additive to these oils, than go ahead.

[JimX]

If you still have the need to add an additive to these oils, than go ahead.

Thanks for the permission

[krawler]

What I forgot to add to my previous post was that those quotes demonstrate the misforgivings I have about snake oils in general. They all provide some sort of test data showing that their product "works", but as the quotes point out (makes more sense if you read the whole thread), these tests are only testing a very specific point of operation which normally doesnt include combustion temperatures or the by products produced by combustion.

Another point that was raised is that synthetic oils already have various additives at very precise concentrations. Often adding more results in acidity.

Anyway, I'm sure this is all EOF by now.

[Emre]

I wasn't trying to be patronising Jim; if you think that i was, than "you are welcomed"

Let us know how much quicker your turbo spools up . :jester:

[knore]

I havent got into the Roil/Oil Extreme discussion much,

But how about we all use really good oil, and change frequently, then there is no need for addittives