'Body Roll' Advice Please

[Kristov]

Yeah i didnt realise it was only $25 difference. For the that extra little bit of money adjustable for sure. Even if i didnt change them you would always have the option if you wanted to. I didnt realise they were that easy to change position etc. I just thought you needed a little more knowledge in suspension.

[scathing]

I didnt realise they were that easy to change position etc. I just thought you needed a little more knowledge in suspension.

Here's a pic of my adjustable sways.

You just need to get the car elevated enough to get at that nut.

The hardest part is trying to get the bolt into a hole that's never been used before. With them painted, the holes are just a little too small for the bolt, and they go in at an angle, so you need a fair amount of force to push them in the first time.

[eXc]

Well my thread got hijacked didnt it ? haha It's all good, it's all info I wanted anyways:)

I have too many things that 'need' to be done, and it may be pointless doing one without the other

[Sydneykid]

Well my thread got hijacked didnt it ? haha It's all good, it's all info I wanted anyways:)

I have too many things that 'need' to be done, and it may be pointless doing one without the other

Nope, I reckon it is best to do them one at a time, so you can feel the effect of each upgrade as you do it. That way you can tell which one gives you the best bang for your buck. Stabiliser bars always do it for me, unbeatable value and you can fit them yourself, no special tools required.

[eXc]

SK,

Yeah the reason I say is current considerartions;

1) Camber. Wheels are wearing. Gotta fix this or cost of tyres is crazy.

2) Height. I think off memory hub-gaurd hieght is 340 front, 330 rear. Car is illegal by about 3mm.If I lost any points on my license in the next 2 years, I lose my license (and thus my job)

3) Body Roll

Now, I would assume that 1 and 2 go hand in hand. If I fix all the camber up now, then raise it 2 months away, i'll have to readjust camber. Perhaps I need to raise it. $330 to get 4 new standard height king springs (their other option is 30mm lower, which puts the car where it is now.

So it would make more sense to raise it. Then re-assess the camber. Maybe it will fix it. In which case I can afford sway bars.

I think the body roll comes a distant 3rd considering my budget.

SK- I am gonna search, but havnt found it in the past, is there a thread that lists the 'best' height/rates to go to when getting aftermarket spirngs? I will have to find out, get this done, then see how the camber is.

What do you think?

[Sydneykid]

SK,

Yeah the reason I say is current considerartions;

1) Camber. Wheels are wearing. Gotta fix this or cost of tyres is crazy.

2) Height. I think off memory hub-gaurd hieght is 340 front, 330 rear. Car is illegal by about 3mm.If I lost any points on my license in the next 2 years, I lose my license (and thus my job)

3) Body Roll

Now, I would assume that 1 and 2 go hand in hand. If I fix all the camber up now, then raise it 2 months away, i'll have to readjust camber. Perhaps I need to raise it. $330 to get 4 new standard height king springs (their other option is 30mm lower, which puts the car where it is now.

So it would make more sense to raise it. Then re-assess the camber. Maybe it will fix it. In which case I can afford sway bars.

I think the body roll comes a distant 3rd considering my budget.

SK- I am gonna search, but havnt found it in the past, is there a thread that lists the 'best' height/rates to go to when getting aftermarket spirngs? I will have to find out, get this done, then see how the camber is.  

What do you think?

I never run R32 2wd Skylines lower than 350 mm, that's the lowest I have seen with the Whiteline #73175 (front) and #70191 (rear). That's using standard shocks or Bilsteins with the lower spring seat circlip set in the standard position. At 355mm (or higher) front camber is not usually a problem, around 1 degree negative which seems to suite most spirited drivers. The rear camber does need adjusting, but in most cases I find the standard camber adjusters (on max positive adjustment) usually give around 0.75 degree negative. Which again seems to suite most spirited drivers.

Keeping that in mind I would buy a set of springs, install them and then check the camber. You may not have to buy any camber adjustable bushes, and if you do it will most likely only be one set of rears #KCA347.

Then it stabiliser bar time.

[eXc]

thanks mate.

Another question. Any reason NOT to go to standard height? Did you just recommend standard height? What springs should I be going for? You obviously like whiteline. I'll have to see what sizes they have, as I am told the standard is 370 and 360 (is this right?) so I'd want 5mm lower at the most? I assume that you want to keep the front/rear/ balance the same as factory....or do I want to try to level it out?

[Kristov]

eXc - sorry to whore your thread :Pimp2: But yeah there is very good info on here big thanks to SK and scathing for the pic . After i get the engine sorted adjustable sway bars and pinapples should be next on the list.

[Sydneykid]

thanks mate.

Another question. Any reason NOT to go to standard height? Did you just recommend standard height? What springs should I be going for? You obviously like whiteline. I'll have to see what sizes they have, as I am told the standard is 370 and 360 (is this right?) so I'd want 5mm lower at the most? I assume that you want to keep the front/rear/ balance the same as factory....or do I want to try to level it out?

Lowering in itself it is not really the issue, it is the improvement you get from increasing the spring rate by the 25 to 30%. You also get the bonus of a little negative camber on the front which you don't get at standard height. The downside is you get a bit too much negative at the rear, but as I said previously this can be adjusted out.

Standard height, brand new off the showroom floor is ~380 mm less the usual 30mm lowering = 350 mm. They generally settle around 10mm from new, so the ones we see here are usually around 370 mm.

[Frink]

strut braces and sway bars will significantly reduce the amount of body roll you will get, but not elimate it. i have a friend who has been working on rally cars for about 25 yrs or so, (he's not young!), and he says that with just front and rear strut braces, you will get a 25% improvement in handling on top of what you had already. true? you guys decide.

i run coilovers in the rear of my 33 and some kind of 'super duper' spring in the front (not sure what kind) with the stock shocks, and this works a treat. if anything the arse end of the car is too stiff and doesnt get enough body roll, so to combat this, i use 265 tyres on the back, which makes a difference.

i think the only time you'll be unhappy with alot of body roll is low speed competitions. in my experience, having body roll at mid-high speeds isnt always a bad thing. cause the chasis just rolls over and sits on the bump stops on the outside wheels, transfering the weight of the car to the tyres on the outside of the corner, resulting in more grip. say what you like about this theory, but it worked for me. having said that, i much prefer my current setup and wouldnt swap it for the above!

i'd start with the shocks and springs and work from there. strut braces will be a cheaper option, but you'll notice a bigger increase in cornering ability with the springs and shocks.

[Sydneykid]

strut braces and sway bars will significantly reduce the amount of body roll you will get,

Strut braces make no difference what so ever to body roll. Strut braces simply attempt to strengthen the chasis such that the static wheel alignment settings are maintained dynamically (ie; when the car is on the move).

[scathing]

strut braces and sway bars will significantly reduce the amount of body roll you will get, but not elimate it. i have a friend who has been working on rally cars for about 25 yrs or so, (he's not young!), and he says that with just front and rear strut braces, you will get a 25% improvement in handling on top of what you had already. true? you guys decide.

In addition to what SK said, your mate mustn't be that young if the cars he's working on can have its handling improved 25% by adding two thin metal bars.

You'd be lucky to get 25% improvement in handling with a full cage in a modern vehicle, let alone a pair of braces.

[Frink]

sorry, i got my wires crossed. :innocent:

strut braces will reduce chasis flex. i feel so stupid! :crazy:

however, they will help. :uh-huh:

yeah, he worked on very old fiats! i guess that says it all! :chairshot

i guess it depends on what kind of setup your looking for. if your after a softer setup, for say wet weather (racing) or general road use, then strut braces wont do much good at all. but if your after the opposite effect, then bolt everything you can on to it!

[eXc]

So that would mean, based on your standard height measurement. I wouldn't want more than 20mm lower due to the 380mm normal minus 10mm settling...anymore than 20mm will result in going below 350mm you are recomending.

Correct?

How much wil me going to 20mm lower or standard hieght effect the car? Is it likley to make it handle noticbly worse than it does now? What about once I put the castor/sway bars on? (remember it is at around 30-40mm lower than standard)

I guess I am asking, what would be the best height for me to run? Should I just leave it and replace the bushes to fix the camber.

[predator]

eXc.. I actually installed a set of bilsetins over the weekend onto my R32, used the standard spring for now.. setting them 2cm below the top setting (top setting equals about the same as the nissan shocks from what i could tell)

I went and measured everything once in, and interestingly enough, bang on 350mm wheel to guard measurement front and back so i am happy there.

This still leaves the car about 20cm off the ground, but will not make the car *look* that much cosmetically lower (if you care, I don't too much). I could still easily fit 17's, and maybe even 18's under there and it would still have plenty of room to not have any guard rub.

Its a little hard to tell how much better the ride change has effected the car though on dropping the height itself, as the shocks were replaced with the better ones. I am liking how it feels though

[Sydneykid]

I guess I am asking, what would be the best height for me to run?

It will handle better in all conditions at 350 mm than it does at 330 mm.

[skyline]

To ALL,

I've owned our '33 for 8yrs now,and in the first instance lowered it to approx. 350 mm and dislogded a few teeth,the wife and kids thought it looked kool but it didnt drive very nice.So i set about replacing my original fixed whiteline sway bars(the 1st to have them in aus as i sent them to whiteline to make their 1st ever set!) with the adj ones a fr camber/caster kit,rr double camber kit,removed the hicas and made my own lock bar,and added a set of bilstein coil overs.You cannot beleive the difference it made i just could not stop smiling!I will give you some advice dont be a cheap arse when it comes to suspension,brake pads,or the quality of tyres you use and buy as you will only get out of a car what your prepared to put in!!!

And to those who mock the use of coil overs for street use, just think about what will you do when your lowered suspension 'settles' as SK said,are you going to go out and buy again- i think not!So the obvious advantage the coil overs have is you can wind them back up to correct any sagging that naturally occurs.The other great adv to me is i can have my car corner weighted on scales to allow for driver weight etc.,and end up with a beautifully balanced car that is a joy to drive...

Regards,

SKYLINE (Kym)....

[scathing]

i guess it depends on what kind of setup your looking for. if your after a softer setup, for say wet weather (racing) or general road use, then strut braces wont do much good at all. but if your after the opposite effect, then bolt everything you can on to it!

I'm not sure I entirely agree with that. The strut brace stops your chassis from flexing, allowing your suspension to do its work better.

Regardless of whether you're driving an Excel, tarmac rallying, or competing in F1 its better to have the suspension absorbing bumps and settling the car around a corner rather than your chassis.

For general street use the differences won't be major enough (some people say they notice much better steering feel after adding a front strut brace; I've never owned a car without one) but for any kind of "quick" driving, on any surface, its better to have the chassis as rigid as possible.

[eXc]

Ok, So Whitline have model Front 73175, rear 70191. This lowers by 25-40mm....isn't this going to be the same as what I have?

Anyone know if HKS springs have it marked on them and where, what model or height they are?

Maybe my bushes are shagged and that is causing the huge neg camber, not the hieght?

[Sydneykid]

     And to those who mock the use of coil overs for street use, just think about what will you do when your lowered suspension 'settles' as SK said,are you going to go out and buy again- i think not!

Regards,

SKYLINE (Kym)....

Hi Kym, the Whiteline heights are the "settled" heights, there should be no need to adjust their height.