Bar & Plate vs Tube & fin

[grandmasterb]

Ok i did a quick search and didn't really come up with much but if someone can direct me to a thread regarding this that would be great.

Just want to know the overall differences between the 2 really.

what are the advantages/disadvantages or each and which would be better suited to a Rb20 aiming for 220+rwks as a daily driver???

Need more info will add if need be.

Cheers in advance and sorry if a repost

[paulr33]

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...highlight=plate

second post

[grandmasterb]

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...highlight=plate

second post

cheers, sorta answers it i guess, but not 100%

[paulr33]

what do u want to know? the thread cleary shows the differences and advantages of each.

if its under 300rwkw then stock r33 gtr intercooler should be fine, can be had fairly cheaply and should flow fine for your power requirements.

[TTT]

read here when you got time..

if you have more questions... read it again.

http://www.are.com.au/feat/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm

if you want a short answer.

Get a GTR tube and fin intercooler if you HAVEN'T upgraded the stock R32 GTST radiator.

if yo uhave, get a hybrid copy bar and plate kit for cheap.

they both do the job.

Tube and fin allows more air through the radiator.

[Sydneykid]

There are 4 important things to consider when choosing an intercooler;

1. Cooling the inlet airflow (this effects the temperaturee of the inlet air)

2. The effect of the intercooler on the radiator (this effects the water temp of the engine)

3. The efficiency in passing inlet airflow through the intercooler (this is a measure of how much pressure loss there is across the core)

4. It's internal volume (this effects the throttle response of the engine)

No one intercooler is superior in all 4 areas, they all are compromises. An example, a 600 X 300 X 100 bar and plate is good in #1 and #3 but bad in #2 and very bad in #4. The standard Stagea intercooler is good in #4 and #2, not so good in #1 and very bad in #3.

I have chosen a standard R34GTT intercooler, to keep #2 and #4 at good, improve #3 a lot and improve #1 a little bit. That set of compromises suites my Stagea usage.

On the race car we use a 600 X 300 X 100 tube and fin. It is good in #1 and #2, OK in #4 and we have a big enough turbo not to be concerned about #3.

My personal favourite all rounder is the standard R33/34 GTR intercooler. Up to 300 rwkw they are very hard to beat.

Ok, so lets do the 4 tests with the Tube & Fin versus the Bar & Plate;

#1 The T&F cools the inlet airlfow very effectively when moving, but the B&P has more mass. So it is better at taking heat out of the inlet air instantly. That's why T&F are used on circuit race cars and B&P are used on drag cars.

#2 The T&F is a clear winner in this one as its design allows much freer movement of the ambient air through the intercooler core to the radiator. Obviously a side mount intercooler has none of this problem.

#3 Depending on design, the B&P can be a little better in this test, but at the price of loosing some on the move cooling efficiency. Overall not a lot of difference, but some designs are much worse than others.

#4 B&P tends to have more internal volume for the same external dimensions, worth keeping in mind if throttle response is important.

#5 (new one = price) B&P tends to be a little cheaper as the extrusion process is easier and faster.

Hope that was of some help:cheers:

[grandmasterb]

Ok, so lets do the 4 tests with the Tube & Fin versus the Bar  & Plate;

#1 The T&F cools the inlet airlfow very effectively when moving, but the B&P has more mass.  So it is better at taking heat out of the inlet air instantly.  That's why T&F are used on circuit race cars and B&P are used on drag cars.

#2 The T&F is a clear winner in this one as its design allows much freer movement of the ambient air through the intercooler core to the radiator.  Obviously a side mount intercooler has none of this problem.

#3 Depending on design, the B&P can be a little better in this test, but at the price of loosing some on the move cooling efficiency.  Overall not a lot of difference, but some designs are much worse than others.

#4 B&P tends to have more internal volume for the same external dimensions, worth keeping in mind if throttle response is important.

#5 (new one = price) B&P tends to be a little cheaper as the extrusion process is easier and faster.

Hope that was of some help:cheers:

Cheers for the info Sydneykid, that clears it up. Will be going with a HYBRID tube and fin 600x300x76 cooler for the R32 GTS-t.

Is there a big difference with piping and what would you suggest if im working to a slight budget but want the best overall product???

[R31Nismoid]

piping sizes... materials is around also

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...ead.php?t=77711

[Andi]

#4 B&P tends to have more internal volume for the same external dimensions, worth keeping in mind if throttle response is important.

Hey Gary,

Regarding test number 4, I'm not sure which is better. Am I right in assuming more internal volume results in less throttle response? If thats the case that means Tube & Fin is better in this area yes?

I'm deciding on whether to get a Hybrid Copy Bar & Plate ($175) or Geuine Hybrid/HDi Tube & Fin ($350) core . I'm leaning towards the T&F just for the fact that there is more air allowed through to the radiator, and becaue I was under the impression you will have more throttle response or boost will be easier to achieve with the T&F (the latter about boost was just things I read - still not convinced on this - opinions?).

If it is actually the opposite (where B&P gives [or doesn't reduce as much rather] better throttle response and/or brings boost on easier) then I believe the slight loss in radiator efficiency will be worth it. If not I'll definately go for the Tube & Fin - makes sense that the Tube & Fin is twice the cost.

Opinions and answers?

Thanks!

Andy

[discopotato03]

Its interesting that Nissan and Mitsubishi use tube and fin intercoolers for their high performance production cars . The GTR and Evo Lancer intercoolers look good from the tanks or collectors perspective , unlike many aftermarket items . I can't help but think that when the ducting enters or leaves tanks that are too close to the core end plates that flow is reduced or at least less that the core is capable of .

Nissan and Mitsu obviously have large R/D budgets and know what works with their applications .

SK thats interesting about the power figures GTR coolers are capable of , for what I want the GTR one gets the nod and the second hand prices are pretty good compared to the aftermarket .

Is it safe to say the GMS cars used the std one or are some "more std" than others ?

Cheers A .

[pnblight]

I personally know the gtr intercooler is good for 397rwkw even when slightly damaged as i have run one for nearly 2 years. The other thing that aways worried me about buy a cheap bar and plate intercooler was the materials used, metals ant metals and like mention above i believe the end tank design to be lacking some what.

Thankfully i have pick up a nice biltz 102mm gtr replacement unit and will be retiring the gtr intercooler to my second project a twin turbo ca.