250rwkw + RB20det HOW 2

[BOOSTMEISTER]

Gts-t VSPEC

My bad, I didn't really explain my self. What I guess I was trying to say was that if your tuner is doing gears for the first time on your engine type then it can take a long time as settings on one engine can be totally different from another....i.e. The settings for the RB26DETT can't be used on my mates car as they offer no performance and in fact actually reduce power in the top end. We tried those settings first but with no sucess.

I agree with you that if the tuner has done them before with the same motor then it should only take a couple of hours but not the first time and this is what most people around will experience.....there aren't a lot of tuners that have done gears, especially in Queensland.

[Cubes]

Boostmeister:

You say he runs a T3/4 Hybrid Turbo.

What housing is he using? the VG or a RB20/25 Housing?

[Cubes]

Remember also if you consistently do runs the power will drop slightly. So you have to give it a little cool down every now and again for 30mins or so.

[GTS-t VSPEC]

What is the rev limit on the RB20, and after 250+kW worth of power where is the peak power produced?

I know with my car the peak power is not past the original redline, therefore we have shifted the redline so that we can maximise the power to the ground when drag racing.

See'ya:burnout:

[Guest nismogtsx]

Can i reply...

As you all know im a T3/4 owner... Dont know the origin of mine but she spools at 3200 and keeps going to 8000 and she holds a constant 10psi.... On a relly hot day shell go to 11 or sometimes 12... Then there was this one time on band camp when... haha i mean one day the bleed valve failed and the boost went all the way to 23psi and the motor crapped it self and i did too.....

Back then i had a stock core and so there was no big performance different 10psi and 23.... hahaha

Anyway i picked the Rb20 (red top NICS) cause its a solid cast iron block and i have the proff that the silver top ECCS is not that flash when it comes to big performance... The water jacket in the silver top is larger for better cooling however it does push very close to the cylinder walls and its a compisote block (made up for partly alloy) this can turn bad if she goes to hard for too long...

With the red top heat is an issue... but with a larger water pump and a custom alloy rad at the front this can be avoided easily... Making stroking very possible.... Also think of the might FJ20 motor it is still a really highly reguarded motor cause it has earnt its status as a "BULLET PROFF BLOCK" same deal as the red top rb20....

Thats my 2 cents

[Guest nismogtsx]

No to say the silver top is not good... I used to have one...

Its a whole lot easier to tune and get performance parts for, just not strong enough for racing with stock internals....

The RB25 does have some pinging issues that i have seen and played with and to a strapped for cash person is not a good motor to choose... If you wanta do it quick and cheap and get good power 200rwkw for egsample then get an RB20 ECCS silver top... If you want 200rwkw from an RB25det with the same strength then be prepaired to spend about 1000 bucks more....

If you want magga power than buy a F16 fighting falcon....

I believe they can go pretty quick too with a few mods... like taking off and flying.....

[Guest Works Auto]

I agree with everything u just said.

I used to have red top rb20det in my r31. the ECCS version though.

I cained the **** outta it for 2years and its still perfect. The new owner loves it. So its bit of tesstimant to its strenght.

That motor was producing about 250hp at wheels with a vg30turbo and 1bar of boost.

I have a silver top rb20 now. :shake: :shake: :shake:

[Ustasa]

In regards to changing the cam timing with cam gears, you won’t be able to gain up top without losing something down low. You are in effect just shifting the power band higher.

[GTS-t VSPEC]

Ustasa,

Yes your right. I prefer to have my power come on in the mid-range, with the cam gears you can fatten out the power band, it wont provide any more top end power but the acceleration and street drivable power are improved.

See'ya:burnout:

[BOOSTMEISTER]

Sorry guys but they DO increase the top end power AND the bottom at the same time. Done it on two cars now.

[GTS-t VSPEC]

Really, what advance and retard did you run? Are you sure nothing else infulenced the readings?

I was pretty sure you couldn't get the best of both worlds, we are talking about non-NVCS engines here, not just exhaust cam gear?

See'ya:burnout:

[[mikey]]

This is my understanding of the cam gear phasing.

By advancing the inlet cams timing you are effectively improving the ability of the cylinder to be filled at lower rpm by allowing more air in earlier, thus improving torque creating more exhaust gas flow and spooling up the turbocharger slightly quicker. Exhaust is retarded to allow more gas flow out of the valves at higher rpm, relying on the ability of the turbocharger to force air into the cylinders to make more power rather than the inlet cams ability to take it in.

Correct me if im wrong.

Michael

[Roy]

The water jacket in the silver top is larger for better cooling however it does push very close to the cylinder walls and its a compisote block (made up for partly alloy) this can turn bad if she goes to hard for too long...

Can someone who is had both ECCS & NICS engines apart verify this. I recall Nismogtsx also stated in aprevious thread their was a 60kg weight difference, a figure im having trouble believing.

(Not to say your wrong, but non of my local importers have a clue about what your claiming)

I thought all RB20s had cast iron blocks, and at the end of the day all RB20 share the same bore centres so can the water jackets be that different, i suppose a few mm wcan make a difference to strength

I ask these questions as im looking for a block at the moment to rebuild, if the NICS are stronger, great as they are also cheaper.

[Guest nismogtsx]

Sorry... I was stating 2 posts at the same time "Roy"... I was talking about FG20's only seconds before and got confused as to whick thread i was on. Sorry... There is a slight weight difference but its only about 10kgs.... I believe that this is due to less gutting in the block... I mean the nics has a water jacket and oil lines just big enough to do the job well.. But the ECCS silver top has very large water jackets and larger pump/oil wells etc...

So my guess that there would be a few more kg's worth of solid metel removed from a silver top....

All in all the RB20det red top NICS is like a brother motor to the FJ20det...

A Rb20det silver top has better bang for ya buck but wont go as far...

[S13 Silvia]

Originally posted by BOOSTMEISTER

Sorry folks I didn't mean to cause a stir by not supplying the specs.  So here you go, I trust this is sufficient for you Merli.

COMPRESSOR SIDE:

Cover - To4B with 3" Inlet 0.6 AR

Wheel - To4B v1 / v2

CENTER:

RX7 Hitachi

TURBINE SIDE:

Housing - Safari FORD pickup 0.64 AR (T3)

Wheel - RX7 HITACHI with Cropped fins

Gate - Internal 4mm oversized

We came up with the specs and components for this several years ago and since then JMS have used a similar design GCG also use a very close design but our Turbine housing is much bigger.  Here is a pick of the stock RB20det turbo next to ours.

If you don't mind me asking, how much would one of these turbos set me back? Do you go to a turbo shop, supply the specs and they make it for ya or do you have to supply a base turbo to start with which they modify?

[S13 Silvia]

Originally posted by -Joel-

Boostmeister:

You say he runs a T3/4 Hybrid Turbo.

What housing is he using? the VG or a RB20/25 Housing?

And what Joel said, I'm curious as well

[GTS-t VSPEC]

It is always best to get a good turbo guy to draw you the response you will get on a compressor map, if they know there stuff then they will do it easy, and it will tell you how laggy a turbo is and what is the maximum horsepower available.

See'ya:burnout:

[S13 Silvia]

Do you know how much I would be looking at for a custom t3/4 turbo? Would I have to supply my old housing (and if so would it be a suitable one [rb20]) or do you pay and they supply everything?

[GTS-t VSPEC]

I asked the exact same question just the other day. If you supply your old one then I think it was around $1400, don't quote me. You will need to pay extra to have oil lines fitted, but that shouldn't be too much more.

You will need to ensure that the compressor and turbine are correctly matched, otherwise compressor surge will be a real pain.

See'ya:burnout:

[S13 Silvia]

Thanks.

Do you reckon the rb20 housing would be a suitable base for a t3/4 hybrid?